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The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#431

Post by lukas099 »

2devnull wrote: post #176
lukas099 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds almost like victim blaming. I disagree. They are not suggesting that the interventions specifically target the victims.

I didn’t do a close read. My comment was in response to this: “ research has identified some factors that predispose children to be targeted by bullying behaviours. These studies suggest that public health interventions could aim at preventing children from becoming the target of bullying behaviours from an early age.” To be clear I said nature shouldn’t be our guide. Nature often means that life is nasty brutish and…

To me the quote you posted doesn't suggest what you thought, but it's perfectly fair if you interpreted it differently. Cheers.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#432

Post by MattDemers »

jvm___ wrote: post #87
corobo wrote: post #52

Heh, decent timing. My last CBT session ended with me realising one of my issues may be a lasting effect of bullying. Essentially I was trying to find out why I procrastinate, beyond "it's just the ADHD lol" Boiled it down and down and down until we hit the core of the issue and realised I don't want to poke my head up and ship code/sites/ideas/etc because I believe I'll be bullied for it. In school doing anything th…

"If I excel, I will be bullied" or "I need to bring things with me to parties/events because people don't value me for just being me"

"In order to be loved, I must be me, plus something else."

Like if you're hosting a party, it's easy to obsess about there being enough entertainment, food, booze, etc, far beyond what's actually needed.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#433

Post by spacephysics »

vintermann wrote: post #397
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%, the way to avoid being bullied is to not be an easy target. I once had a kid bullying me in middle school. I spoke with my mother about it, who recommended I say something to the teachers, which I did. When that didn't work I knocked the shit out of him the next time he tried to bully me, to the point that he was running around the edges of the classroom trying to get away from me while I chased him down to bea…

> the way to avoid being bullied is to not be an easy target. That may work for the individual, but there's always going to be an easiest target. We have studies of bullying interventions, including teaching kids self respect by way of martial arts, and changing the victim doesn't work. I suggest people should look into the actual science on this. A good start is "Bullying at school: what we know and what we can do"…

So this book that’s been around for over 30 years has the answers, yet apparently few schools have implemented it enough where bullying is still a problem?

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#434

Post by themitigating »

skorpeon87 wrote: post #81
themitigating wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an adult attacks someone they can go to jail or at the minimum are arrested for assault. In school the consequences are much less serious

That's nothing to do with school though, just youth. Kids who get into fights in the summer months away from school aren't sent to jail for it like adults. Being at or away from a school isn't a factor in that difference.

Children are forced to be around children in school. Outside they can avoid bullies most of the time.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#435

Post by vintermann »

wrycoder wrote: post #429
vintermann wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should learn about bullying from science, not from out of fashion novels. Try out your intervention in a dozen randomly selected schools, try a different one (or do nothing) in the others. This has in fact been done, and nothing resembling your approach, what one might call the "Manhood YouTube channel" approach, has done well at all.

Not an "intervention", but part of communicating basic civilization to one's children. People aren't born civilized. Do you have a reference for your claim?

You propose people, other people, should do a specific thing. That's an intervention you're proposing.

Yes, I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread the book that is school bullying 101, "Bullying in school: what we know and what we can do", Dan Olweus, 1991. It contains the results of the first large scale intervention studies on preventing bullying in schools.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#436

Post by vintermann »

spacephysics wrote: post #433
vintermann wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the way to avoid being bullied is to not be an easy target. That may work for the individual, but there's always going to be an easiest target. We have studies of bullying interventions, including teaching kids self respect by way of martial arts, and changing the victim doesn't work. I suggest people should look into the actual science on this. A good start is "Bullying at school: what we know and what we can do"…

So this book that’s been around for over 30 years has the answers, yet apparently few schools have implemented it enough where bullying is still a problem?

If that would surprise you, you don't know much about social science. Proving an intervention works is one thing, convincing the people who make the decisions to follow up on it is quite another.

Luckily Olweus was uncommonly good at that too. It has been implemented at thousands of schools all across the world, and kept being evaluated in differing cultural contexts, and in comparison to alternative interventions, in many systematic review studies.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#437

Post by bongoman37 »

Dudeman112 wrote: post #135
thegrimmest wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to respond to antisocial behaviour by a peer, and being able to resolve conflict independently, are two very important skills that it's critical to learn. Being seen as someone who needs adult help to resolve peer conflict is socially disastrous for young people. We do children no favours by intervening in this developmental process.

>being able to resolve conflict, independently A shame sometimes the best way to resolve a conflict is eye gouging the aggressor before they permanently break a part of your body The thing that stuck with me the most by getting the "resolve your conflicts by yourself" treatment was that no matter how much someone is being a piece of shit, the only one you can count on is yourself Everyone else will watch as you break…

No post body was provided.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#438

Post by bongoman37 »

soco wrote: post #137
thegrimmest wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is as follows: 1) If you're roughly evenly matched, you should fight 2) If you're not, your peers should intervene - "pick on someone your own size" 3) If this doesn't work, escalate to older peers 4) If that doesn't work, escalate to adults This relies on children being taught and encouraged to intervene in unfair conflict, which the research indicates they are naturally inclined to do.

So basically you advocate not only educating the own kid, but also educating their peers to intervene, and also educating the older ones to police the area, and educating the adults in the end. Do you really think this is a realistic policy, over the lifetime of your school kid? In an ideal world, no idea, but in this real world Id say zero chance. However I can tell you how it works around here (Switzerland, by no m…

No post body was provided.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#439

Post by vintermann »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #420
vintermann wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that before you learned to stand up for yourself, then? Or wasn't it bullying?

from another comment of mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33808521 > There's a point at which the child cannot possibly deal with it and you as the parent must step in to protect them, but most of the time if a child learns how to deal with bullies you don't need to. And the next step isn't to start arguing about what does, and doesn't, constitute a bully. --- The way my mother tells it, I started crying whe…

Yeah, that sounds like a situation where you needed someone else to stand up for you, and I think that's a lot more common.

If you can get out of it on your own toughness alone, it probably wasn't bullying. It's part of the definition of bullying that it's one-sided, that the victim has no good ways to fight back.

If they DO have a way to fight back, it's called conflict, not bullying. It's of course possible that one side in a conflict is a big jerk, a wannabe thug, etc.

One of the big conclusions from bullying research is that treating bullying as if it was conflict (e.g. teaching kids "negotiation strategies") makes things actively worse.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#440

Post by twiddling »

wrycoder wrote: post #344
twiddling wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew one kid who stood up to the bully and then was jumped by the whole gang after school. They used steel pipes to break a leg and knock out teeth. Of course there were no "witnesses" as "snitches get stitches" in that old neighborhood.

If the environment is that uncivilized, the usual solution is every kid joins a gang, for mutual protection. That is a sad comment on the adults in the community failing to provide proper parenting, families, and civil government.

Pretty much. The "adults" were only a few years removed from childhood anyway. The ones that were around at least.
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