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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#191

Post by peatmoss »

GuB-42 wrote: post #151
hokkos wrote: post #40

I use white vinegar instead of a dedicated rinse aids.

It is a tip I see often, and dishwasher manufacturers generally don't recommend it White vinegar is a very different product: it is not a surfactant, it is an acid. It means that it doesn't help rinsing, but it can remove scale. Both can prevent white stains, but the mechanism is very different. If it works just as well, why don't dishwasher manufacturers use acids instead of rinse aid? You can argue that white vineg…

In places with very hard mineral deposits, one solution is to put an inline mechanism that dispenses a very small amount of citric acid into the water supply. I'd guess that, for the amount of exposure time that your dishwasher components have with vinegar, it's not a problem. Same as the above poster, I've run rinse aid and vinegar both, with very similar results.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#192

Post by jamal-kumar »

blibble wrote: post #168
m463 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc) I would wonder if that happens in the gut too. It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more Since people are trying to avo…

> Since people are trying to avoid SLS, MANY tricky marketing synonyms have appeared to obfuscate ingredient lists: this seems to be almost the definition of evil people are trying to avoid something specific that makes them ill, so they try to hide it from them instead? scum

The best part is all SLS does is contribute to the foaming of the toothpaste, that's literally all it does (Same thing in soap). It's just to give some psychological idea that foamy toothpaste cleans better. Something like a focus group in the 1950s came up with this ingredient.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#193

Post by tharkun__ »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #147
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liquids have enzymes or bleach. They might have oxiclean instead of bleach but apparently the two best cleaning agents don’t exist in liquid together very well. Powder is better. Pods are just powder.

But the pods have too much detergent. Since there is no detergent in the pre-wash, they put too much in the main wash.

I always break a corner off the pod and crumble it into the pre-wash partition since watching the video nerdponx in the sibling thread posted (found it through a different post maybe a half year or so ago also here on HN). I also do the hot-water priming when I remember to.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#194

Post by NateEag »

esaym wrote: post #125

Ok, so what do I use as a rinse aid then? I just dug all over amazon and pretty much everything has akoxylated alcohol or some form of polyoxypropylene laureth. And yes, I've purposely let the rinse aid run out just to see what happens. It wasn't pretty... Anyway to make something more "natural"? Some other ingredients I've seen include citric acid, urea, trisodium phosphate. But not sure if just mixing those togethe…

Tossing in a bit of vinegar with each load has worked well for us. We have incredibly hard water.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#195

Post by hedora »

D13Fd wrote: post #127
throwaway09223 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Softened water feels slimy to me - similar to seawater. I actually do have a whole-house softener which came with my house. I installed a bypass valve so it does not feed the pipes in my home.

It may be over-softening. Our water felt slimy until we replaced our old unit. The new unit uses way less salt (at least 10x less) and the water feels normal.

I believe the old ones had an adjustment, but I can confirm new units definitely do. We hardly use any salt at all.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#196

Post by emmelaich »

Vrondi wrote: post #170
version_five wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in an office where I eventually realized I got annoying to bad GI problems whenever I drank the water (won't describe in detail but very atypical and I at first wondered why it only happened when I was in the office), and someone else there once mentioned they had the same problem. I always used the office-services provided glasses to drink out of, and reading this it seems very likely it could have been res…

I had issues severe enough to visit a gastroenterologist, which turned out to be caused by a water filter that wasn't being changed. I stopped consuming water going through that filter, and all symptoms went away within a day or two. It was stunning.

I don't touch water from a filter or (if I can avoid it) bottled water.

Tap water in Sydney and most of Australia is excellent.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#197

Post by michael1999 »

nerdponx wrote: post #175
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A. Watch his follow up video. Where he talks about all he got wrong. B. I recently switched to a more “natural” SevenGenerations pouch and holy crap it’s been excellent. C. You can not buy anything but pods at two of my grocery stores. You need to go to Walmart near me to find any straight powder. Market has spoken right or wrong.

> Market has spoken right or wrong. I call BS on this. The non-pouch detergents disappeared, that much I know. I strongly doubt people had stopped buying gel and powder. I suspect that some bright bulb at Johnson & Johnson or wherever did the math and realized that pouch margins were higher than gel and powder margins.

The marketing side of the market has spoken.

Fixed serving sizes force over-use. Lots of included water means extra volume and weight (perceived value) on the shelf. While powders allow measured use, and reduce turnover.

I buy 20lb boxes of cheap powder and they last for months. Hot water just doesn’t need that much help if you put some in the pre-wash too.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#198

Post by avsteele »

MauranKilom wrote: post #167
robmsmt wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you explain more on the gas stoves and oven part?

They put a really high amount of particulates in the air, drastically reducing air quality.

The particulate result is dubious from what I've seen

Most people keyed into this from the Vox article:

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2020/5/7/21247602...

Which links to:

https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1172959

As evidence for the claim that Gas range put out more PM2.5

But if you consult table 3 of that article you will see it doesn't show that at all. The food (especially frying) swamps differences between electric vs gas ranges, which themselves aren't even significant.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#199

Post by hedora »

NateEag wrote: post #194
esaym wrote: post #125

Ok, so what do I use as a rinse aid then? I just dug all over amazon and pretty much everything has akoxylated alcohol or some form of polyoxypropylene laureth. And yes, I've purposely let the rinse aid run out just to see what happens. It wasn't pretty... Anyway to make something more "natural"? Some other ingredients I've seen include citric acid, urea, trisodium phosphate. But not sure if just mixing those togethe…

Tossing in a bit of vinegar with each load has worked well for us. We have incredibly hard water.

We have a whole home water softener. Rinse aid does nothing for us. (Similar principle as using vinegar)

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#200

Post by michael1999 »

nijave wrote: post #184
Scoundreller wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run half in the pre-wash cycle and the other in regular cycle. Can also help to run/prime your hot water tap before starting cycle to start off with hot water (in places where it’s hooked up to hot).

The difference with "primed" hot water is pretty crazy for something that seems trivial. I've also found opening the door and jiggling the racks during the drying cycle also makes a pretty big difference (assuming you catch it at the right time--and use heated dry)

Some vinegar in the dispenser will fix the spots.
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