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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#41

Post by cj »

mauvehaus wrote: post #31
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? I'm not sure all dishwashers have a receptacle for that. Ours doesn't, and I'm pretty confident that I've never had one that did across several states in the US and one place in Belgium. Is the salt for doing a softening process that substitutes for a whole house softener if you don't have one? We live in a place with hard water and have no softener in the house (you should see our electric kettle when…

My dishwasher has a "salt" light that lights up when the salt is low.

The dishwasher is also 30 years old. Miele G 680 SC from 1992. Living in New York. Perhaps adding salt was more common in older models.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#43

Post by yamtaddle »

casion wrote: post #26
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? Configure for water hardness? I've never heard of either of these things before. Certainly not things on my, relatively fancy, dishwasher.

Ditto, no clue what either of those mean. Never, ever heard of adding salt to a dishwasher, certainly. Not in new ones, not in ones from the bad ol' days when they used way more water but actually worked.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#44

Post by b112 »

lazide wrote: post #34
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of things than can go wrong when you order from a restaurant or coffee shop. There could be diseases, bacteria, virus, chemicals or even contaminent such as glass parts or insects. The answer to this question would be to only order from places you trust - and even then, contamination can happen quickly and in invisible ways.

As anyone who has worked the back of a kitchen can attest, there are almost no actually trustworthy restaurants.

I've worked in several, and if you mean "infallible" OK, but I can assure you the people I worked with gave a damn, cared, and would never intentionally slack off, or do a poor job, placing people at risk.

Maybe you just worked with/for terrible people?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#45

Post by jiveturkey »

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

> - always fill the salt.

rinse aid is for hard water. restaurants probably tend to not treat the water and the commercial dishwashers they use probably tend to not have a provision for salt. they operate very differently than your residential dishwasher.

So yes, completely unneeded if you have soft water. Most dishwashers don't have a provision for salt.

Also completely unneeded if you don't mind spots.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#46

Post by jandrese »

jliptzin wrote: post #21

What the hell is rinse aid anyway

Residential version is marketed under the trademark "Jet Dry". It's intended to prevent hard water spots on your dishes, but most people don't care enough or don't have this problem so it's not heavily used.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#47

Post by pdq »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #30
jasonhansel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dishwasher doesn't have a salt compartment or any sort of water-softening features; in the US, I haven't heard about this feature. Apparently it's a UK thing?

I know Miele has a water softener feature. That's the only time I've heard of it in the US.

There are a few Bosch models with dishwasher salt dispensers, but it’s extremely rare in the US.

It’s a great idea, given most municipalities have hard water.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#48

Post by hammock »

jasonhansel wrote: post #37
trebor wrote: post #14

Ironically, the summary isn't as good as the "Key Messages" section at the bottom: > * Professional dishwasher rinse aid causes cellular cytotoxicity and directly impaired barrier integrity of gut epithelial cells by damaging TJ and AJ expressions in daily exposed concentrations. > * The underlying mechanisms of epithelial barrier disruption in response to rinse aid were cell death in 1:10,000 dilutions and epithelia…

Importantly, when they tested a household dishwasher, they didn't find the same issues: > In contrast, the residual substances on the cups washed in a household dishwasher with detergent B were not present at sufficiently high concentrations to exert cytotoxicity and impair the epithelial barrier function (see Fig E9).

If you use a rinse aid in your dishwasher I bet you’d find harmful results.

Home detergent does contain AES (sulfates) but it gets rinsed pretty well. However if you use rinse aid, the rinse water itself has surfactants (AES, more sulfates), which will remain on the dishware- that’s the whole point actually, so the water beads off.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#50

Post by xeromal »

b112 wrote: post #44
lazide wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As anyone who has worked the back of a kitchen can attest, there are almost no actually trustworthy restaurants.

I've worked in several, and if you mean "infallible" OK, but I can assure you the people I worked with gave a damn, cared, and would never intentionally slack off, or do a poor job, placing people at risk. Maybe you just worked with/for terrible people?

One of the dirtiest, worst people I know is a sous chef at Flemings. Take that for what you will.
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