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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#31

Post by mauvehaus »

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? I'm not sure all dishwashers have a receptacle for that. Ours doesn't, and I'm pretty confident that I've never had one that did across several states in the US and one place in Belgium.

Is the salt for doing a softening process that substitutes for a whole house softener if you don't have one?

We live in a place with hard water and have no softener in the house (you should see our electric kettle when we haven't cleaned it recently). Recently the accumulation of what I assume to be mineral film has gotten a bit noticeable on the dishes that go in the dishwasher.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#32

Post by [deleted] »

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

[deleted]

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#33

Post by skrbjc »

fire wrote: post #17

huh, I didn't know home and commercial rinse aids were any different?

Based on the paper it seems to be primarily an issue with dilution. They say home dishwashers dilute it to a rate of around 1:80000, the commercials ones are around 1:1000 - 1:10000. The problems they observed seem to happen in that lower dilution range.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#34

Post by lazide »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #8
b20000 wrote: post #3

So what does this mean for all of us who buy coffee at coffee shops every morning? Will this cause serious problems long term since we are consuming residues of their dishwasher chemicals? One potential solution is to always get your coffee to go, but that probably only partly solves the problem.

There are a lot of things than can go wrong when you order from a restaurant or coffee shop. There could be diseases, bacteria, virus, chemicals or even contaminent such as glass parts or insects. The answer to this question would be to only order from places you trust - and even then, contamination can happen quickly and in invisible ways.

As anyone who has worked the back of a kitchen can attest, there are almost no actually trustworthy restaurants.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#35

Post by RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm »

casion wrote: post #26
RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

Fill the salt? Configure for water hardness? I've never heard of either of these things before. Certainly not things on my, relatively fancy, dishwasher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_salt

The water hardness setting determines how much the water softener tries to soften the water.

If the water isn't soft enough, it will leave spots on the dishes. Hence people use "rinse aid", so the improperly softened water would drip off before it leaves spots.

If the water is properly softened it contains no calcium etc. which could cause spots on your dishes.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#36

Post by PragmaticPulp »

RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm wrote: post #22

Rinse aid is completely unneeded if you properly maintain and use your dishwasher. I never use any, and my dishes are completely spotless. 30 years old dishwasher, super hard water. Specifically, you should: - always fill the salt of the dishwasher's water softener once it's empty. It cannot soften the water if it doesn't get cleaned by the salt. If the water is not softened you will get spots. EDIT: Apparently US fo…

For everyone confused by this comment: In some countries you might find dishwashers with a sort of built-in water softener: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishwasher_salt

It's not common in the United States. Some all-in-one detergent packets might contain some amount of dishwasher salt, though.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#37

Post by jasonhansel »

trebor wrote: post #14

Ironically, the summary isn't as good as the "Key Messages" section at the bottom: > * Professional dishwasher rinse aid causes cellular cytotoxicity and directly impaired barrier integrity of gut epithelial cells by damaging TJ and AJ expressions in daily exposed concentrations. > * The underlying mechanisms of epithelial barrier disruption in response to rinse aid were cell death in 1:10,000 dilutions and epithelia…

Importantly, when they tested a household dishwasher, they didn't find the same issues:

> In contrast, the residual substances on the cups washed in a household dishwasher with detergent B were not present at sufficiently high concentrations to exert cytotoxicity and impair the epithelial barrier function (see Fig E9).

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#39

Post by awinter-py »

wonder how the proliferation of small motors + robots will affect the use of chemicals in applications like this

better robotics tech can reduce chemical use by:

1. spot application of sponge in place of general application of chemicals

2. more targeted application of chemicals (only when + where needed)

3. replacing poison for pest / weed elimination with smart mobile traps (have seen laser POCs for both bugs + weeds)

4. cleaning materials for recycling using targeted friction instead of soap. separating oil and food scraps from drain water. separating human waste from gray water (and selling the nitrates)

even for something innocuous like brushing your teeth, a robot can use advanced sensing to modify the dose of fluoride

feels like lots of 'bits to atoms' projects here for someone who enjoys garbage

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