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UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

technology.berkeley.edu

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Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#51

Post by lambda »

heyrhett wrote: post #16
lambda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think you're looking at the wrong terms of service; you're looking at their ordinary end user terms of service, not their educational terms of service. The educational terms of service, http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/terms/education_terms.htm... say: > 12.2 Limitation on Amount of Liability. NEITHER PARTY MAY BE HELD LIABLE UNDER THIS AGREEMENT FOR MORE THAN THE AMOUNT PAID BY CUSTOMER TO GOOGLE DURING THE…

I wonder if UC Berkeley is confusing "confidential obligations" with "confidential data". It doesn't seem like google is saying, "if we lose an email, and it costs you a million dollars, we're liable for it". From this section: "Confidential Information. 5.1 Obligations. Each party will: (a) protect the other party’s Confidential Information with the same standard of care it uses to protect its own Confidential Infor…

You are misreading the clause.

It is talking about "confidentiality obligations", not "confidential obligations." That is, obligations to keep information confidential, not obligations that are themselves confidential.

And below, they define confidential information clearly:

'"Confidential Information" means information disclosed by a party to the other party under this Agreement that is marked as confidential or would normally be considered confidential under the circumstances. Customer Data is Customer's Confidential Information.'

They explicitly state that "Customer Data is Customer's Confidential Information." They are indeed saying that if they release the contents of an email, and it costs you a million dollars, then they are liable for that.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#53

Post by jrockway »

tsunamifury wrote: post #46
_ea1k wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also just the other day it prompted me with a late notice about a cancelled weekly meeting. Isn't that just user error (failure by someone to send out a cancellation notice)?

Pretty well known ux flaw, when someone forwards you a meeting in outlook, then cancels it, none of the forwarded attendees receive notice.

Another fun fact is that when you forward someone a meeting and add a snide comment to it, your snide comment gets sent to the organizer. I always wondered why people stopped liking me suddenly, then I realized that my private commentary about stupid meetings wasn't actually private.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#54

Post by jrockway »

chollida1 wrote: post #43
richardburton wrote: post #36

I am Google Apps addict but they still don't have a web-based Excel-killer. I think that when bankers and corporates start using Google apps to build their financial models then Microsoft should worry.

This is true. I've seen entire hedge funds run on excel sheets. Our traders do alot of trading right out of excel sheets with custom C# addin's.

This is not the intended use case for Excel. Rather, it's a product of 10 years of bad decisions leading to more bad decisions.

(Someone I work with created a "market data bus" using Excel. It had the side effect of preventing Outlook from receiving email while it was running, so you had to have two machines if you wanted to read email AND get market data via this method. Now that's shoddy software engineering.)

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#55

Post by libraryatnight »

bsk26 wrote: post #49
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean I know they are Google and all- but I can't imagine Gmail and Gcal supporting a corporate user very effectively. I use it for my personal stuff, but I am extremely appreciative of Exchange at work.

Works pretty well, actually. Calendar isn't perfect, but I personally prefer the UI to exchange.

I enjoy Calendar, and my company uses their own but provides a link so that I can have it automatically imported to my Google Calendar. So my work, family, and personal calendar are all on one happy color coded page, and on my phone a simple widget.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#56

Post by kenjackson »

dminor wrote: post #48
jroseattle wrote: post #45

I've always found these large organizational analyses to look completely sound and well-reasoned on paper, yet never really align with reality when deployments start going up. IIRC, the City of Los Angeles did a similar evaluation, yet they shuttled a migration to Google due to security concerns. In less-public implementations, I've seen planned migrations from MS to Google Apps dropped after pilot tests, mostly due…

> IIRC, the City of Los Angeles did a similar evaluation, yet they shuttled a migration to Google due to security concerns. Actually most of the city is using Google Apps and the contract has been renewed. The LAPD decided it wanted additional security and hasn't migrated yet.

To be clear it's more than just the LAPD. From http://informationweek.com/news/government/cloud-saas/232300...

The amendment will remove the LAPD, portions of the city attorney's office, the Los Angeles Fire Department, Department of General Services, and Department of Transportation from the contract

Only a little more than half of the expected number of users have been migrated.

Still a nice win for Google, but also a cautionary tale.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#57

Post by sunchild »

kenjackson wrote: post #56
dminor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IIRC, the City of Los Angeles did a similar evaluation, yet they shuttled a migration to Google due to security concerns. Actually most of the city is using Google Apps and the contract has been renewed. The LAPD decided it wanted additional security and hasn't migrated yet.

To be clear it's more than just the LAPD. From http://informationweek.com/news/government/cloud-saas/232300... The amendment will remove the LAPD, portions of the city attorney's office, the Los Angeles Fire Department, Department of General Services, and Department of Transportation from the contract Only a little more than half of the expected number of users have been migrated. Still a nice win for Google, but als…

So what are the excluded departments using? Hosted Exchange? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that whatever solution they're using isn't any more secure. Even if you host your own mail servers inside Fort Knox, and hire and vet everyone who goes near those servers, you still have all the same trustworthiness problems.

On the other hand, I'm probably missing something there, since Google somehow failed to convince them to stay on board.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#58

Post by chollida1 »

jrockway wrote: post #54
chollida1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. I've seen entire hedge funds run on excel sheets. Our traders do alot of trading right out of excel sheets with custom C# addin's.

This is not the intended use case for Excel. Rather, it's a product of 10 years of bad decisions leading to more bad decisions. (Someone I work with created a "market data bus" using Excel. It had the side effect of preventing Outlook from receiving email while it was running, so you had to have two machines if you wanted to read email AND get market data via this method. Now that's shoddy software engineering.)

> This is not the intended use case for Excel. Rather, it's a product of 10 years of bad decisions leading to more bad decisions.

This is true :)

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#59

Post by sliverstorm »

peteretep wrote: post #41
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean I know they are Google and all- but I can't imagine Gmail and Gcal supporting a corporate user very effectively. I use it for my personal stuff, but I am extremely appreciative of Exchange at work.

Can you expand on why? * Update: Specifically for you, rather than in the wider sense; how does Exchange make /your/ life easier?

Directory searching, hotkeys for everything, Calendar is more powerful AND easier to use. Searching email is faster, managing hundreds of messages easier, and the interface, snappier.

Offline is a smoother experience requiring no effort. Reminders for the Calendar actually manage to get my attention.

Rules are easier to manage, and if memory serves much more flexible.

I am not criticizing Gmail et al mind you; as I mentioned, I use them all the time. They just are more useful for personal, low-volume stuff.

Re: UC Berkeley chooses Google apps over office 365 based on this analysis

#60

Post by sliverstorm »

m0th87 wrote: post #10
sliverstorm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Google really make its employees depend on Gmail and Gcal?

Yes, they do. But that shouldn't be surprising.

To add another thought- it is not surprising, but it also is. I've gotten the impression Google is pretty good about avoiding NIH syndrome, and use the best tool for the job. Sometimes there is no such tool and they build one, or sometimes the best tool isn't good enough so they extend it, but...
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