Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 903 posts

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#521

Post by bayindirh »

jonny_eh wrote: post #453
bayindirh wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

Any argument in favour of the iPhone being so locked down needs to contend with the fact that Macs are just as reliable, but far more configurable. All I want is the for the iPhone to be as open as a Mac. Let me run binaries signed by legit devs!

> Macs are just as reliable, but far more configurable.

As a user of portable Macs, I concur. I use Linux desktops, Mac laptops and iOS mobile devices.

> All I want is the for the iPhone to be as open as a Mac. Let me run binaries signed by legit devs!

That should be nice, indeed. It'll take us to the good old PalmOS days.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#522

Post by PartiallyTyped »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #404
spacemadness wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really all Apple? Sites like Reddit hammer you with “it’s better on the app!” spam so they can force you to see ads and whatever else they want you to see.

Don’t forget tracking and data collection. Apps like Reddit’s have at least two motives. It’s bullshit and I hate it. Really hoping that the era of free money ending reigns in these tech companies to being forced to do things in the customer’s interests.

I recommend Apollo instead of Reddit to browse Reddit:)

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#523

Post by scarface74 »

amelius wrote: post #71
threatofrain wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there should be a way to allow power users such as yourself to customize your phone, such as how Google allows side-loading. But we can see that based on how niche side loading is that mass-users oriented businesses like Spotify and Twitter would not be happy. As for users like myself, I'm very happy that Apple intermediates my relationship with big businesses, because in the sphere of negotiation and leverage, b…

Any user should be able to walk away from the original hardware vendor, never contacting them again, and still be able to use the product in a normal way. Otherwise you bought a service, not a product.

Sure you can walk away from Apple completely like 80% of the world does.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#524

Post by heavyset_go »

vineyardmike wrote: post #480
rtpg wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But like... none of that is related to the App Store lock in! It's also not related to the 30% cut. Apple's OS and the API it provides for developing apps is what gets us here. Lord knows there are some real busted apps out there, but your system doesn't fall apart. Let's not even get into the fact that Apple itself was doing OS X stuff, which was able to have a high bar for software quality, and no "don't install ra…

> But like... none of that is related to the App Store lock in! It's also not related to the 30% cut. It’s related to the “one app source”. See… > no "don't install random binaries" stuff to be seen. Because it was a lot smaller target than windows in terms of uses and impact. Maybe you forget, but there was certainly crapware that would bog your system down. Meanwhile iOS is probably the single greatest target today…

It isn't 2003 anymore, operating system vendors have been taking security seriously for a while now. Abuse and malware are not a problem on macOS despite barely anyone using the Mac App Store to install apps. Same goes for Windows, it isn't Windows XP anymore, and despite nobody using the Microsoft Store, abuse and malware are much less of a problem than they were in the past.

Billions of machines use software distributed via package managers like Apt that have existed for decades, yet there is no epidemic of rampant malware proliferation via Linux package repositories despite trillions of dollars worth of assets being managed by Linux machines.

This argument is typical FUD, and it's very common for App Store apologists to not argue based on what's happening today with other app distribution methods, but via Y2K-era fear and the classic "but what about Facebook!" refrain.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#525

Post by weberer »

aroma_mic wrote: post #102
donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

Same should be said for Nintendo or Sony, who assert the same control. Most of the money made is on games. Not saying you’re wrong or anything, if anything I agree, and think it should apply to all my hardware I buy.

Well they did ship out official Linux discs for the PS2 and PS3.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#526

Post by bayindirh »

aussieshibe wrote: post #479
bayindirh wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? I heard an argument like this a lot at the start of discussions about whether we should be able to choose to WFH in the longer term. "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. It might just be me, and I'll de…

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits?

No.

> It might just be me, and I'll definitely fret about whether I'm being unreasonable for at least the next couple of hours, but this kinda frustrates me.

The thing is, I'm stating my position and not telling that just because I choose something, everybody should be happy with that. I have only stated that Apple's proposition is better suited to my mindset and current preferences, given the choices are Android and iOS.

> I'm supportive of your choice, but you already get to do the thing you want, and nobody is trying to take that away.

I expressed no such fear or concern as far as I'm aware?

> Expressing that you wouldn't behave any differently given more options is a distraction in a discussion about whether other people should be allowed to make a different choice.

I don't think so. I skimmed the discussion and didn't see the position I have expressed here, and the parent asked for a counter-opinion, and I presented mine in a concise and polite manner. I guess we're discussing by expressing our opinions here, what am I missing?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#527

Post by drawingthesun »

bayindirh wrote: post #427
donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

I agree.

As my business become more complicated and I become less a tech oriented student and more a "have to get the paperwork done for legal reasons" type person I went back to iPhone and never looked back.

I noticed many people I know running very time consuming business to be iPhone users too, not having the time to tinker with Android.

I notice my tech friends working in support love android, as their job doesn't really let them tinker. How we for those running's servers and dealing with backend stuff I see iPhone ownership is about 50/50, far higher than in support.

And most people I know that own their own business like I do are almost always iPhone users.

We just do not have time to dig deep into our phones and tinker, we have too much work to do and we are already stretched for time with our families, why waste that on configuring yet another Android ?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#528

Post by sourabhv »

adamwk wrote: post #170

Can someone explain why Apple is always the target for these complaints regarding fees? Is it just shorthand for both companies or a target people rally against? As Android has the same 30% fees for in-app billing, it's not like it's cheaper for Spotify on Google's platform. I get there's theoretically F-Droid and sideloading, but I don't see Spotify on fdroid so presumably there's not enough users to make it worth i…

You can use other payment methods in android apps without any issues.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#529

Post by tobylane »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #513
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? You can always Jailbreak your device? I think Apples response to your argument would be that it isn't the technically aware user that is trying to get control over their device that is the problem, its apps being used by those with no technical…

Macs allow installing apps not from the Appstore, and I'm hearing they are quite fine and not a mess.

AppStore apps are sandboxed almost the same as on iOS.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#530

Post by bayindirh »

scarface74 wrote: post #517
klabb3 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macs are just as reliable, but far more configurable Apple has been working tirelessly for years to retrofit the iOS model to Mac. It's probably just a matter of time, unfortunately.

Yes HN chicken littles have been saying that Apple is going to force all apps to go through the Mac App Store since it was introduced in 2010.

We "HN chicken littles" were also saying that Microsoft is gonna force Secure Boot harder and harder to close the hardware ecosystem for Linux, and we're almost there.

Being skeptical, and critical is important. This skepticism, criticizing and warning caused Apple to at least postpone their CSAM scan and reconsider their algorithms.

We need to talk, and talk indeed openly about the things we don't like. Otherwise we'll be the real chickens at the end of the day.

Post reply on HN