China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup • Hacker News Board

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#291

Post by jahnu » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

thworp wrote: post #142

jahnu wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really bad, only 65% of 80+ are vaccinated [1] As you mentioned their own vaccine is not very effective but they have also approved no foreign vaccines yet [2] They have far too few ICU beds to manage the surge if restrictions are dropped to, say, average EU levels [3] They seem to be trapped [1] https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202211/22/WS637c2416a3104917... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/25/c…

Let's just assume that the effect of "restrictions" on case numbers is proportional to their harshness (which looks dubious when looking at global stats). Let's also blindly trust the Chinese numbers (which showed You're still here justifying current deaths from starvation, fires, suicides with potential future deaths to covid. If an individual thinks like this they're a sociopath, but if governments do it they are "…

I’m not justifying anything or arguing for or against anything. Thanks.

Trapped meaning the available choices are limited to things the CCP don’t seem to want; unrest, use of foreign vaccines, or massive deaths etc.

Again for the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting what they should do or how they should do it.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#292

Post by Workaccount2 » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

apostacy wrote: post #247

boringg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry - you so far off base here. There has been ample reporting about China in the western media and none of your conspiracy related thought process is translating to anything that's happening in the West. If anything its promoting the narrative that the Western response to the pandemic was highly successful.

What I said stands. I never said that our media does not criticize China. Of course they do. But they tiptoe around criticizing China in a way which could expose our own hypocracy. Western media has been pushing the narrative that any level of force by the government is justified, because the pandemic is such an existential threat. They are reluctant to report that the Chinese government is then using excessive force…

Last time I checked the US was never welding doors shut on apartment buildings to keep people from going out.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#293

Post by boringg » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

apostacy wrote: post #247

boringg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry - you so far off base here. There has been ample reporting about China in the western media and none of your conspiracy related thought process is translating to anything that's happening in the West. If anything its promoting the narrative that the Western response to the pandemic was highly successful.

What I said stands. I never said that our media does not criticize China. Of course they do. But they tiptoe around criticizing China in a way which could expose our own hypocracy. Western media has been pushing the narrative that any level of force by the government is justified, because the pandemic is such an existential threat. They are reluctant to report that the Chinese government is then using excessive force…

I understand your comment and thought thread but it has no muscle to it. I don't think any Western country would be at all concerned about your line of thinking because it isn't an issue. The magnitude of the difference between the approaches of Zero Covid China compared to Western countries is quite significant to the point that is almost incomparable.

The other part is that western media doesn't have many sources inside China that can properly report with confidence what is happening without losing their asset.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#294

Post by nradov » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:44 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #200

throwoutway wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Wants an early end”? That must be propaganda because it should be obvious to a lay person that it started in late 2019. China government has been trying for 3 years to “have an early end”

That could just be due to a failing strategy. China always tried to completely contain and destroy the virus, and had good success with that early on. Many other countries instead went with "let it spread at a rate our health care system can handle". China's approach had a better chance at bringing it to a fast end early on, but with greater risk if it doesn't end quickly. Now that it is a multi-year affair, they hav…

China's approach never had any chance of bringing the pandemic to a fast end. No contagious respiratory virus has ever been stopped through such means. Once the first infected carriers left Wuhan in December 2019 any possibly of containing the virus was completely lost.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#295

Post by netsharc » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

robjan wrote: post #258

leereeves wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "Western water forces" mean? Is that a Chinese idiom?

It's a bad translation of 水軍 which is short for 網絡水軍 (astroturfers)

Fascinating that to understand "astroturf" you'd have to understand that it's a brand of fake grass, and it's a term someone invented to mean "fake grassroots movement" and you'd have to understand what the phrase "grassroots movement" is.

An average Chinese person who encounters "astroturfer" for the first time would probably wonder what it means, just like we wondered what "water scouts" mean...

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#296

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #165

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines in use in China are already highly effective. The best data on this comes from Hong Kong, which uses both Pfizer/Biontech and Sinovac. Three doses of either vaccine is roughly equally effective at preventing death. The problem isn't what vaccines they're using. The problem is that many old people don't want to get vaccinated, period.

No usages of Sinovac outside of china call it effective, and even china itself accidently loose lipped called it ineffective. The best data does not come from Hong Kong as its still China, it can be fudged and censored.

Are you suggesting that Prof. Ben Cowling,[0] a highly respected epidemiologist, is publishing "fudged and censored" data? This sort of conspiratorial thinking with regards to China is really getting out of hand.

The reason the best numbers come out of Hong Kong is because Hong Kong uses both Sinovac and Biontech/Pfizer, and had an Omicron outbreak earlier this year.

Pre-Omicron, there were plenty of studies of Chinese vaccines (there are several of them, using different technologies) conducted in other countries. In fact, all the phase-3 studies were conducted outside of China, because you can't determine real-world efficacy of a vaccine if the virus isn't spreading in society. The various Chinese vaccines generally had similar efficacy as the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

0. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(22)00345-0

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#297

Post by nradov » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #277

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation Is there any evidence this is about masks versus gatherings? > the Geneva convention has a clause against going to war with a nation stricken by a pandemic The U.S. would go to war with China if it invaded Taiwan, conventions or not. (I also believe the relevant text is with respect to medical personnel, not a general prohibition on armed…

If the US is ruled by a government that will start a war with a nuclear power for any reason other than an attack against it, we need to do everything possible to replace that government. Because doing that is insane, and we cannot let madmen in charge of a nuclear football. Taiwan isn't worth ending the world over.

Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs. If Xi succeeds in conquering Taiwan then that would be just the first of many targets.

From a game theory perspective, being willing to end the world over Taiwan is ironically the best way to prevent the world from ending. Deterrence works.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#298

Post by Workaccount2 » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

davzie wrote: post #122

edejong wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Mild Covid is linked to brain damage months after [1][2] * Here is a collection of threads describing all the possible negative influences COVID has on the cardiovascular system, the brain, kidneys and the autoimmune system. https://twitter.com/laurieallee/status/1521178772023652352 [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/long-covid-even-m... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

Is this the article that says brain damage but simply means the nerves in your nose (aka brain) can sometimes be damaged for sometime but later heal? If so that article is the one that made me completely switch my feelings on the news. I refuse to believe any of it anymore. Built to scare.

The nature publication is clearly about brain damage. Decreased grey matter, smaller overall brain size, decreased cognitive ability.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#299

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #109

GameOfFrowns wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that with China's cavalier attitude towards intellectual property and trade secrets they would just copy one of the more effective mRNA vaccines and distribute it under the current Sinovax label.

i do wonder how easy/hard it really is to reverse engineer a vaccine - and if it went wrong, some heads will roll. It's not like software piracy, where a perfect copy could be made.

China had an unfortunate event where people were poorly reverse engineering baby formula so they poisoned a bunch of their own kids.

People in China are still posted about that.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#300

Post by agumonkey » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

GameOfFrowns wrote: post #101

agumonkey wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stumped they didn't consider buying other vaccines. Maybe they don't want to be reliant on the west. They're indeed doing a mistake keep the lock strategy...

You'd think that with China's cavalier attitude towards intellectual property and trade secrets they would just copy one of the more effective mRNA vaccines and distribute it under the current Sinovax label.

There's also the russian vaccine, it seems a little better .. considering the context they could have made a deal to buy some..

In any case there are multiple paths available and so far they seem stuck on the failing one. It's strange.