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U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

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Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#81

Post by usui »

jser wrote: post #74
usui wrote: post #39

Every article I’ve ever read that cites “national security concerns” never, ever explicitly goes into the exact, computational mechanism in which it is a security concern. It’s always something like “Chinese company under Chinese government, therefore bad”. Never anything concrete or substantive from a software engineer POV, such as what exactly is phoned-home, or what actual subversions are happening currently, only…

Many examples, e.g. https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16072786/amazon-blu-suspe... . “In November 2016, security firm Kryptowire detected pre-loaded remote surveillance software on BLU phones sold online through Amazon and Best Buy. In August 2017, Amazon pulled BLU Products from its website over security vulnerabilities that resulted in BLU consumer user data being covertly sent to China.”

This.. doesn’t answer my question still. Even if data goes to China, how that data is used, what it is, and by what mechanism is what determines whether it’s a threat or not. Why do we continue to use boogiemen when it comes to explaining threats? Why don’t we apply this kind of scaremongering to any data exfiltration to every shady company ever?

Also in your specific reference:

> “Now almost a year later, the devices are still behaving in the same exact way, with standard and basic data collection that pose no security or privacy risk. There has been absolutely no new behavior or change in any of our devices to trigger any concern. We expect Amazon to understand this, and quickly reinstate our devices for sale.”

So, clearly I’m not the only one who wants clear, explanatory, descriptive answers to these threat models.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#82

Post by MattGaiser »

k_paleologos wrote: post #54

Is this an executive measure? Does the executive have authority to do such a thing, based on vague and nebulous claims of threat to national security? Were these companies providing sevices/supplying goods in the US market subject to necessary US regulatory approvals? On which grounds can such approvals be rescinded without evidence that will stand in courts? Moreover this is infact a restriction on US citizens/ firm…

They were given the authority last November under the Secure Equipment Act.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#83

Post by galdosdi »

k_paleologos wrote: post #66
ghufran_syed wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct, they certainly have the right to not answer questions...and the US government has the right to interpret that lack of cooperation any way it chooses, and, say, ban their products.

What government can do is limited by the constitution. Generally speaking, unless these companies have done something unlawful there is no ground for banning their products. Is it established that they have broken US laws?

Have you read the US constitution? It is very short, easily reeadable in an hour. So if your comment is sincere, you would cite the specific clause of the constitution that you are worried is being violated. There is no such clause.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#84

Post by PenguinCoder »

k_paleologos wrote: post #66
ghufran_syed wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct, they certainly have the right to not answer questions...and the US government has the right to interpret that lack of cooperation any way it chooses, and, say, ban their products.

What government can do is limited by the constitution. Generally speaking, unless these companies have done something unlawful there is no ground for banning their products. Is it established that they have broken US laws?

Not publicly, because they won't step up and answer questions, in public.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#85

Post by skeeter2020 »

huntertwo wrote: post #51
rgbrenner wrote: post #28

Reminder of how this started... when Huawei and ZTE decided that because they weren't American companies, they didnt need to answer questions from Congress, and even outright lied about the structure of their companies to conceal CPC/government involvement: https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:rm226yb7473/Huawei-ZT...

Doesn’t everybody have the right to not answer questions? Americans don’t have to do this either

When called before congress? That's not accurate, beyond you don't have to, but then pay the price - much like these companies have.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#86

Post by oneoff786 »

k_paleologos wrote: post #66
ghufran_syed wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct, they certainly have the right to not answer questions...and the US government has the right to interpret that lack of cooperation any way it chooses, and, say, ban their products.

What government can do is limited by the constitution. Generally speaking, unless these companies have done something unlawful there is no ground for banning their products. Is it established that they have broken US laws?

It will be if they sell their banned products

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#87

Post by yazaddaruvala »

simion314 wrote: post #67
iso1631 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people on HN arguing against sanctioning Russia for invading a sovereign state, they believe that the west should just turn a blind eye to it. It's quite interesting, it's pretty much the only place on the internet I encounter such posts.

>It's quite interesting, it's pretty much the only place on the internet I encounter such posts. You can find similar or even wierder ideas on reddit. Like one dude that said is from USA was telling me that Russia is the victim, was provoked by USA and on top of that he was on the opinion that countries in Easter Europe belong to Russia sphere of influence, that we the Easter Europeans have no rights, only USA and Ru…

No it is not common. Most people I know are pro democracy and very nervous about Russian/Putin’s attempted expansion.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#88

Post by beebeepka »

skorpeon87 wrote: post #45
ranger47 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ELI5: The US and China are not very good friends, but Chinese goods still get sold to US markets. China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or so it is suspected, since this is routinely denied by the companies and the Chinese gov't. Some of those companies make computers that can watch and listen to us, whether we ask them to or not. The US is no longer comfortable with that arrangement. Of course, i…

> China's gov't has a hand in every company in its borders, or so it is suspected Not merely suspected, it's a matter of Chinese law that the Party is represented in any company large enough for them to take notice of.

No post body was provided.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#89

Post by [deleted] »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #78
rgbrenner wrote: post #28

Reminder of how this started... when Huawei and ZTE decided that because they weren't American companies, they didnt need to answer questions from Congress, and even outright lied about the structure of their companies to conceal CPC/government involvement: https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:rm226yb7473/Huawei-ZT...

That obviously wasn't a very good move from Huawei and ZTE but it's disingenuous to claim this is what caused the current situation. It simply handed the US government a convenient stick when they really wanted one, and they would therefore have found one in any case. There is a global geopolitical struggle between the US and China, and the US see China as an increasingly serious threat to their 'leadership'. That re…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#90

Post by zokar »

iso1631 wrote: post #25
kadoban wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US can decide who its allies are, other countries can do the same for themselves. What are you even objecting to here?

There are a lot of people on HN arguing against sanctioning Russia for invading a sovereign state, they believe that the west should just turn a blind eye to it. It's quite interesting, it's pretty much the only place on the internet I encounter such posts.

They may be arguing against sanctions because they are ineffective and hurt the West. I haven't seen the stance to ignore the Ukraine invasion altogether.

I wonder why you would single out HN for these posts. They appear in every comment section even of the mainstream press, on YouTube and other places.

Ineffectiveness of sanctions is an old and legitimate topic. Certainly the topic is discussed behind closed doors everywhere. There is a difference between hardliner isolationism and realism. Ultimately, the Western economies have to function if $billions in weapons are to be provided in the future.

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