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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

economist.com

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#161

Post by eru »

largepeepee wrote: post #155
eru wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When measured by income or accumulated wealth, Singapore has huge inequality. When measured by things like access to good education, infrastructure, housing, things look more equal. A big temper to any real authoritarian tendencies in Singapore is that it's easy for our inhabitants to vote with their feet: people can and do leave. Thanks to some special diplomatic deals, Singaporeans have special access to working vi…

Well said, I rarely compliment replies but I feel that description is worth bookmarking.

Thanks for the kind words.

I'm a big fan of subsidiarity and local decisions making, exactly so that when people vote with their feet, they don't have to travel too far to get meaningful change.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity

It sounds like a boring, middle-of-the-road principle; but it gives you such radical sounding conclusions as 'a federal minimum wage is bonkers, why couldn't the counties (or even cities) handle that issue by themselves?'

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#162

Post by throwaway-9000 »

astrange wrote: post #90
throwaway-9000 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is also one of the least diverse developed countries with well over 90% of inhabitants being Yamato Japanese. It is unsurprising that it would be safe, clean, and functional.

The Japanese government, like France, does not track ethnicity stats. When you see a number like this it means Japanese citizens, not “ethnic Japanese”. (Ethnic Japanese are nearly the same people as Koreans too, but that doesn’t stop them being racist against each other, so it is all kind of made up.) There’s also very many more immigrants in Tokyo these days.

I didn't say "Japanese citizens", I said "Yamato Japanese", the ethnic group.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#163

Post by kalleboo »

rjzzleep wrote: post #46
diob wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling you've never actually been there. They do have an issue with forced confessions, but you're much more likely to be arrested or worse (shot) in the USA for no reason. But beyond that, this is an over simplification of something that stems from multiple things, not some singular root reason. And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for w…

I don’t think any place in the world comes close to the USA in terms of its prison(labor) camps. It has the highest per capita rate of incarceration on the planet. So I don’t think his comparison is warranted. But I’m actually in Japan right now, and while I definitely did fetishize Japan to some extent this trip has not been pleasant. Last night I went out for a call in front of my Airbnb so I wouldn’t wake up my ba…

I've lived here in Japan for nearly a decade now and had a couple interactions with police. None of them have been targeted, and even when I was doing something illegal (riding a bike with headphones in) or plausibly illegal (sitting in a park drinking alcoholic drinks with my bicycle parked next to me) they were polite to a fault and also didn't seem to care about my immigration status.

Anecdotes are difficult - some people get unlucky and extrapolate their experience to something that is not statistically sound.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#164

Post by GekkePrutser »

JamesianP wrote: post #93
GekkePrutser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It creates stability, but often at the expense of flexibility. Also at the expense of individualism. The freedom to think differently gives us many different issues in the western world. But I still think it's worth it. Making the most of one's life is important. Also I don't think law enforcement is the biggest factor in reducing crime. It doesn't eliminate the need for people to commit crimes, it just moves it to…

US culture doesn't trap people in minimum wage jobs their entire lives. Even fast food places have raises and promotions. Maybe you're being hyperbolic there? It does generally require people to work and try, which can appear impossible if they lack a working parent or other role model to help them believe they can do it. This is not something welfare solves though. It possibly makes it worse. Something like shop cla…

I was exaggerating yes but for you really think someone from a ghetto has the same chances at a decent life as someone from a well-off family?

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#165

Post by rayiner »

digianarchist wrote: post #137
llanowarelves wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

Singapore is a high-trust society without the homogeneity.

At the business and public administration sphere it’s a carefully crafted (and top-down) Anglo-Chinese culture.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#166

Post by rayiner »

llanowarelves wrote: post #115
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

Homogeneity is necessary but not sufficient. Italy is pretty homogenous (95% Italians) but it’s not a particularly high trust society.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#167

Post by rayiner »

crowbahr wrote: post #87
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

Social programs that take care of the poor are part of that. Affordable housing is part of that. Decency is for people who have things to lose. If you're already a "dreg" why would you behave well?

Japan doesn’t have particularly generous social programs, and has plenty of poor people.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#168

Post by diordiderot »

GameOfFrowns wrote: post #156
diordiderot wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't mean racial homogeneity, because that would be a load of _equine excrement_ If you didn't, homogeneity really isn't the best word to convey the idea that social trust comes from long-standing, slow moving cultural traditions. Even then there are counter examples but it could be one of those 'necessary but not sufficient' situations

>I hope you don't mean racial homogeneity, because that would be a load of _equine excrement_ I'd argue that Mumbai/India or Lagos/Nigeria are overwhelmingly racially homogeneous. So there must be some additional factor beyond racial homogeneity.

I agree

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#169

Post by quacked »

GameOfFrowns wrote: post #156
diordiderot wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you don't mean racial homogeneity, because that would be a load of _equine excrement_ If you didn't, homogeneity really isn't the best word to convey the idea that social trust comes from long-standing, slow moving cultural traditions. Even then there are counter examples but it could be one of those 'necessary but not sufficient' situations

>I hope you don't mean racial homogeneity, because that would be a load of _equine excrement_ I'd argue that Mumbai/India or Lagos/Nigeria are overwhelmingly racially homogeneous. So there must be some additional factor beyond racial homogeneity.

Only if you see "races" as the American-style social construct and not as people in India and Africa see it, which is at a tribal level. I had an hour-long discussion with a Ugandan once that explained to me the major tribes in Uganda, and he says that anyone can tell the tribes apart just by look and dialect. A European looks at Lagos and sees "Nigerians", a Nigerian looks at Lagos and sees Yoruba, Igbo, etc. The Indians also have a brutal caste system and thousands of sub-dialects originating from provincial clan systems and would never call any of their major cities "homogeneous".

Europeans also had a lot more tribal-based racism in the past; southern vs. northern Italians, Scottish vs. Welsh, even sub-clans inside both of those nations, etc.

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