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Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

economist.com

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Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#131

Post by diob »

version_five wrote: post #103
diob wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I met multiple individuals on my last trip to Australia who commented on how they felt extremely unsafe in the USA (hearing gunshots at night, seeing shootings on the news). Some were native Australians, others were from places abroad, such as Japan.

Have you been to the US? Do you feel that way? Definitely the news tries to frightened everyone into watching more. I don't think that's too reflective of reality.

I'm a native born and raised in the US, so I'm used to it for the most part. It wasn't till I visited other countries that I realized how strange it is that we are comfortable around it.

I feel much safer on my visits to Australia, for a variety of reasons.

I remember last month landing in LAX and immediately noting how much more "intimidating" the police look here. It's so military / macho, centered around getting the bad guys versus helping folks.

Police in Australia probably aren't saints, but they look more like helpers than anything else (yellow vests, etc.).

Also, I'm never afraid to walk around random streets, alleys, etc. there. It's just. . . different.

Of course, Tokyo is on a whole other level beyond that.

But the point is, I don't have to worry about mass shootings or gun violence in those countries, whereas here I might just be going to Walmart and end up dead. Or I could be at home, and the police decide to do a wellness check on me. Feels like I'm basically playing a roulette game. Odds are low, but never zero, and they seem to be getting worse and worse.

https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-s...

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#132

Post by rjzzleep »

skhr0680 wrote: post #110
rjzzleep wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think any place in the world comes close to the USA in terms of its prison(labor) camps. It has the highest per capita rate of incarceration on the planet. So I don’t think his comparison is warranted. But I’m actually in Japan right now, and while I definitely did fetishize Japan to some extent this trip has not been pleasant. Last night I went out for a call in front of my Airbnb so I wouldn’t wake up my ba…

If it was a residential area (houses) police generally know everyone who lives there, so yes, they will consider someone they haven't seen before talking on the street at night suspicious.

Sure, except I've been there for a week and walked my child 3 times a day and would go to the local community gym for a swim when she was asleep. So it's not really an excuse.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#133

Post by pempem »

rjzzleep wrote: post #46
diob wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling you've never actually been there. They do have an issue with forced confessions, but you're much more likely to be arrested or worse (shot) in the USA for no reason. But beyond that, this is an over simplification of something that stems from multiple things, not some singular root reason. And if you want data, look no further than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_in... for w…

I don’t think any place in the world comes close to the USA in terms of its prison(labor) camps. It has the highest per capita rate of incarceration on the planet. So I don’t think his comparison is warranted. But I’m actually in Japan right now, and while I definitely did fetishize Japan to some extent this trip has not been pleasant. Last night I went out for a call in front of my Airbnb so I wouldn’t wake up my ba…

Not sure why you're being downvoted...the context that seems to be missing from the OP comment is:

The cops in Japan are nicer to visibly identifiable Japanese people than white cops are to assumed white US citizens. Yes you're more likely to be shot or worse in America, but most often as a nonwhite person. More often to be jailed as well and once you add white citizens of middle and working classes or simply homeless, it becomes a deeply overlapped venn diagram

Somehow many hinted but none of these comments directly identified this.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#134

Post by refurb »

mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

This doesn’t reflect my observations in the US.

I see old people tending to their house all the time. Even sweeping the sidewalk and other public spaces.

And some states allow public drinking and it’s not a bunch of drunks everywhere.

I’m starting to wonder where you lived in the US.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#135

Post by refurb »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #61
largepeepee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a race thing, it's a trust and culture thing. There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. If your government sucks, laws are poorly enforced or even maliciously enforced - there is low trust among the people, no respect for public spaces and no one follows the social norms.

Singapore's achieves "harmony" in their diverse city-state through severe authoritarian control. There's harmony because the state dictates their vison of harmony which all must abide by.

Yup.

Singapore routinely cracks down on any sort of “racial disharmony” and has zero issues with race based rules like banning public drinking in Little India.

The government fully admits the racial mix creates unique problems they always have to be on top of.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#136

Post by signaru »

mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

Of course, everything starts with the people. They can have beautiful things on the open since no one's gonna trash it.

I miss how Japanese civilians try not to get in the way of others. When I'm just simply walking past slow people, they apologize thinking they had been blocking my way. Never happens where I live where people have a misplaced sense of entitlement. Where I live, people don't even give a single thought about their car's loud music system and motorcycle mufflers.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#137

Post by digianarchist »

llanowarelves wrote: post #115
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

People don't like to hear it, but a high-trust society is enabled by homogeneity. Look at Japan's demographics, and opposition to foreign religions, languages, etc. They don't allow "the world" to recreate itself inside them, and the conflict and distrust (Bowling Alone, Robert Putnam) that that brings.

Singapore is a high-trust society without the homogeneity.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#138

Post by danielscrubs »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #109
astrange wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not showing it to you. They keep it private but it’s still there. (that’s called “honne and tatemae”) You’re welcome to look through used fashion/music stores in Tokyo if you want to see how good their soft power is. Meanwhile the stereotypical suburban American thinks every nearby city is a hub of crime and won’t let their children walk anywhere until they’re 25. Vs: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/159632…

> They’re not showing it to you. They keep it private but it’s still there. (that’s called “honne and tatemae”) There is in my opinion a direct conflict between everyone being highly individual and noone being willing to show it. What does individualism even mean if it isn't visible? I'd never deny Japan has a lot of great culture and soft power however my definition of individualism contains a key component that an…

”What does individualism even mean if it isn't visible?” This beautifully sums up east vs west.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#139

Post by pcurve »

tkgally wrote: post #58

The linked article focuses on the physical features of Tokyo. For me, even more attractive is the economic dynamism that they enable. I moved to Tokyo in 1983 and have lived there and in nearby Yokohama ever since. Until 2005, I worked as a freelancer—mostly translation, but also advertising copywriting and other related occupations. I did my work at home, but I was often out and about in Tokyo to visit clients, atte…

Thanks for sharing your story. It’s very nostalgic.

Re: Can Tokyo’s charms be replicated elsewhere?

#140

Post by TapWaterBandit »

crowbahr wrote: post #87
mradek wrote: post #66

Yeah but then you need something that people seem to get upset over. Culture. And that doesn’t mean getting stoned or acting weird or being narcissistic af, but having some basic moral and virtuous behavior. You see old people come out and start cleaning the stairs after a rain. I saw it first hand and thought wow this would never happen in the US. You see people get in line and let the people onboard the train out b…

Social programs that take care of the poor are part of that. Affordable housing is part of that. Decency is for people who have things to lose. If you're already a "dreg" why would you behave well?

There are countries that are a lot poorer that have higher trust than many wealthy countries though.

I honestly think it comes down to education and distillation of values. Can America honestly say that it teaches its children to be considerate of others, respect public places, and other such things? Certain groups of people adopt these attitudes by cultural osmosis but it isn't institutionalised nor supported as an ideal by the larger community. In Japan it is. Even homeless people in Japan keep their spaces tidy etc it is crazy to see.

Edit: and I'm not trying to target the US here, I don't think these values are explicitly taught in most western countries. Think of things like school kids are expected to clean the school up before they can go home. That teaches people to behave a certain way from a very young age in regards to communal spaces.

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