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Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

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Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#231

Post by myself248 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #14
edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

How would you have tested 911 dialling? Did you go all the way to a real operator?

Yes. I used to do this while contracting with Verizon.

When bringing up a new tower, we had a bazillion tests to run, and one of the very last was 911. When that day arrived, my supervisor would call the non-emergency line at the PSAP and check in; sometimes I was in the room for this call. Basically we'd make sure they weren't short-staffed, that they had capacity for the calls, etc. Just a formality.

When testing actually began, I'd simply tell the operator "This is not an emergency, I'm a tech with Verizon making a test call, do you have time to take this call?", and if they were bouncing off their limit, they'd say no, and I was done for the night.

If they said yes, I'd ask them to read back my E911 data. I'd transcribe what they said for later comparison against what was expected, and ask again if they figured they had time to take a few more in the coming minutes. If so, I'd move to the next sector on the tower, lather, rinse, repeat.

It was really quite straightforward, and sometimes I'd get the same operator over and over, they'd recognize my DN and just start rattling off coordinates. At the last call of the night we always made sure to thank them, but briefly, and that was that. My report would go back to the datafill engineer, and that was the last step before unlocking the tower for customer traffic.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#232

Post by eldaisfish »

wpietri wrote: post #220
cmeacham98 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Making calls" isn't a feature phones compete on - it either works or it doesn't, and I hope a review would let me know if calling was defective on a phone. Otherwise, there's no point in including information on making calls - it's a basic feature everybody who buys a phone expects to have. It's a bit like saying "most car reviews don't review whether the car stays still when parked in a garage or not!"

That's just not the case. Phone audio quality varies significantly between smartphone models due to variations in speaker, mic, and noise reduction. And that's before we get to fancier things like Wi-Fi Calling and HD Voice. The whole reason I was looking for that in reviews is that people had a hard time hearing me when I called from my previous cellphone, and I also noticed that some people I was talking to had muc…

If you had difficulty being heard on a phone, then your phone has failed at being a phone.

Also, splitting hairs over phone audio quality is beside the point. The point of a phone is to be a phone, smart or not. I would be livid if my fridge could play games but not provide cooling. A smart fridge doesn’t negate the primary function.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#233

Post by alistairSH »

jpollock wrote: post #208
alistairSH wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a user perspective, I think I’d expect one of two things on a cell-phone… - Teams (or other 3rd party) isn’t allowed to make telephone calls. The phone provides this service. Teams can continue making voice “calls” to other Teams users, it just can’t initiate telephone calls via PSTN. - Teams (or other 3rd party) is allowed to take over calling duties from base software. But, only one call handling system can be…

The problem the FCC is solving is: Person is in an emergency, they pick up the closest device and dial 911. That needs to go through, complete with location information. The specific triggers for the rule were old-landline handsets plugged into VoIP boxes routing through carriers that didn't have E911 connections. A child would pick up the phone, dial 911, the other end wouldn't have the address, and the child wouldn…

I understand that. But MS shouldn’t have to solve “route E911 on an Android phone”. Google has to solve that for the default dialer/call handler. I don’t understand why a call made from default Android would ever route back to MS Teams. All calling (at least for E911 and similar) should go through the default call handler via API. Or something like that. It sounds like Google has a really convoluted, error-prone implementation. I’m sure they had a good reason at the time, but looking in from the outside today, my first thought is “WTH were they thinking?”

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#234

Post by theptip »

jpollock wrote: post #192
alistairSH wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all? Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.

Probably related to [1]: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information. To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers…

> Can Teams make phone calls?

Yep: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-teams/voip-voice-o...

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#235

Post by charonn0 »

> I contacted Glynn County emergency services about Macleod’s 911 issue. The county said it “did not find any record of these calls registering in our system during the time in question” despite Macleod’s phone log showing she called 911.

I was under the impression that (successful) 911 calls aren't recorded in the call log.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#237

Post by cesarb »

wpietri wrote: post #161
hilbert42 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network." Perhaps so in the current circumstances, but ultimately it is the responsibly of the regulators to ensure the emergency numbers work. As witnessed here, a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Unfortunately, the c…

> their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers I don't think that's true. A few years back when I was comparing phones, many reviews don't even mention how good they are at making calls. Both Millennials and Gen Z are notably phone-averse. [1][2] I think a modern smartphone is a portable network computer/camera/sensor-package, with the telephone bit being something like the human…

> I think a modern smartphone is a portable network computer/camera/sensor-package, with the telephone bit being something like the human appendix.

A modern smartphone is a convergence of two devices: a PDA and a cell phone (this is more obvious with older devices like the Palm Treo 650). Once the telephone bit is no longer relevant (probably replaced by a data-only cellular modem), it will go back to being just a PDA.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#238

Post by ipdashc »

cesarb wrote: post #237
wpietri wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers I don't think that's true. A few years back when I was comparing phones, many reviews don't even mention how good they are at making calls. Both Millennials and Gen Z are notably phone-averse. [1][2] I think a modern smartphone is a portable network computer/camera/sensor-package, with the telephone bit being something like the human…

> I think a modern smartphone is a portable network computer/camera/sensor-package, with the telephone bit being something like the human appendix. A modern smartphone is a convergence of two devices: a PDA and a cell phone (this is more obvious with older devices like the Palm Treo 650). Once the telephone bit is no longer relevant (probably replaced by a data-only cellular modem), it will go back to being just a PD…

> (probably replaced by a data-only cellular modem)

Isn't this kind of already the case? I thought past 4G there were no separate channels for call audio, it was effectively just VoIP

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#239

Post by polynox »

komali2 wrote: post #165
mixedCase wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning the product and forcing the manufacturer to pay damages to every single person they sold that garbage to, for example.

I would love this, though there's very few entities in the world that seem to have this level of sovereign power - most regulatory agencies / governments don't seem to have the political will, drive, ambition, or simply ability to do something like this. Let's say for the USA, the chair of the FCC (hahahahahahahahaahah) decided to do this, could they even? Isn't power dispersed enough to make this impossible? (immedi…

You are probably overthinking this.

As much as the deregulatory agenda is ascendant, the FCC does have authority to regulate … wireless carriers and interstate commerce.

In particular, 47 USC 618(a)(6) provides an explicit right of mandamus if the FCC fails to act (I suppose this is mainly for venue). I’m not a lawyer but I’m pretty sure you could compel the FCC to, however indirectly, compel Google to act.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#240

Post by wpietri »

eldaisfish wrote: post #232
wpietri wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just not the case. Phone audio quality varies significantly between smartphone models due to variations in speaker, mic, and noise reduction. And that's before we get to fancier things like Wi-Fi Calling and HD Voice. The whole reason I was looking for that in reviews is that people had a hard time hearing me when I called from my previous cellphone, and I also noticed that some people I was talking to had muc…

If you had difficulty being heard on a phone, then your phone has failed at being a phone. Also, splitting hairs over phone audio quality is beside the point. The point of a phone is to be a phone, smart or not. I would be livid if my fridge could play games but not provide cooling. A smart fridge doesn’t negate the primary function.

If audio quality is beside the point, then it sounds like you agree with me that the primary point of a smartphone is no longer that of being a phone.

I also think your "smart fridge" analogy is hilariously off target. Survey data indicates that the actual phone calls are a relatively small fraction of smartphone use: https://www.reviews.org/mobile/cell-phone-addiction/

I agree that the primary purpose of a cellphone was once making calls. I'm just saying that day is long past. That transition started as texting became popular, but smartphones drastically accelerated it.

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