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Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

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Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#141

Post by cycomanic »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #93
moffkalast wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps staying inside the network is more common in the US, but from a European perspective it's unlikely for a device to stay at one provider at all times. Half the time you're roaming at another network due to missing towers or if you drive 100km and end up in a different country you won't see your original provider at all until you return. As such, all networks must support all devices for the system to retain so…

I'm fairly certain European networks can deny roaming at any time to any specific out-of network phone without giving a formal reason.

I would assume that will run afoul of EU regulations which forced the providers to enable roaming without additional costs. If providers could just deny roaming phones they could use that to circumvent the regulations (which are unpopular with network operators).

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#142

Post by sandos »

edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

It used to be true that even when having an unlocked device here in Sweden, the operator actually tested and certified the updates, and I know this because updates used to be released at wildly different times between different operators. I assume this has stopped now that I read this, because I do get security updates straight away, and I get the feeling everyone does.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#143

Post by Marsymars »

edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

I appreciate the value of this, but the incentives are too biased to function properly. I think a good remedy (which would also tackle a number of other conflicts of interests and biased incentives) would be for anti-trust prohibitions on mobile network operators from selling cell phones at all.

Let the network operators continue to certify phones, like hardware manufacturers do with hard drives, memory, etc., dimmer manufacturers do with LEDs, etc.

Make the certification tests, steps and costs transparent to both device manufacturers and the public.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#144

Post by cycomanic »

paganel wrote: post #70
crooked-v wrote: post #30

This article, dating back to January, lays it out pretty clearly: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightma... > If you're logged out, launching Microsoft Teams 10 times will result in 10 duplicate PhoneAccounts from Teams clogging your phone. Teams shouldn't do this, and Microsoft's update stopped Teams from doing this, but a bunch of duplicate PhoneAccounts also shouldn't be enough to bring Andro…

If I get this right, we have a $1+ trillion company not being able to build a basic functionality into their phones? (like "phone calls don't work" and the whole calling 911 issue). And, apparently, that was happening because of a shitty app built by another $1+ trillion company? In terms of innovation the US tech scene is toast with these dinosaurs.

And in another thread people talk how "real programmers don't need unit tests", oh the irony.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#145

Post by gonehome »

aaomidi wrote: post #63
bestnameever wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many carriers used this "testing" as a convenient way to block phone updates without preloaded bloatware preferring their services or apps they were paid to put on the phones. How were you involved with the update process to know this?

We saw the bloat as the end user.

Scott Forstall also talks about this: https://youtu.be/F3Pl8GmKtW8

Basically part of the reason Apple went with AT&T was they were the only carrier willing to let them control the user/feature layer of the stack.

The other telecoms would have this giant requirement document they dictated to handset manufacturers - which is why your crappy Motorola flip phone had three way calling buried 7 menus deep that nobody could use.

Things got magnitudes better when Apple leveraged their power to take away this control from telecoms. Though they still did agree to adhere to the minimum specs wrt safety/security.

The crappy Motorola rockr phone that Jobs hated is what happened when you tried to work with the telecoms.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#146

Post by Marsymars »

macintux wrote: post #110
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a passion project. I find it hard to conceive of Teams as a passion project, except possibly by people who have a passion for hating the world.

If Microsoft has a penchant for hiring people passionate about hating the world that would explain a lot of their software over the years.

If MS software is the worst software you’ve used, you’re living a pretty good life.

There are businesses running on software that makes Teams look like a paragon of performance, stability and user-focused UI/UX.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#147

Post by hilbert42 »

moffkalast wrote: post #43
edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network. It's on the specific company then to provide adequate QA for their firmware before they release updates, or it reflects badly on them. This fiasco for example, tells me to never buy a Google phone since they apparently don't test their devices properly. I'm not sure why it would be on the network to test devic…

"The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network."

Perhaps so in the current circumstances, but ultimately it is the responsibly of the regulators to ensure the emergency numbers work.

As witnessed here, a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Unfortunately, the computer aspect now seems to dominate—if this weren't a fact then these unfortunate incidents wouldn't have happened.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#148

Post by PebblesRox »

bombcar wrote: post #121
macintux wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve accidentally dialed 911 via the side buttons on my iPhone (I put it into the drink holder in a chair, and it was just tight enough to depress the buttons) and at least twice via the buttons on my Watch (trying to swap out the watch bands). Oh, and once my Watch was wet, and it registered my slide motion in the wrong spot. Admittedly this is roughly once every 2 years, but still I’m about at the point where I’d l…

You can turn much of them off - https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/if-youve-ever-called-91... I had to do this because the kids discovered that if they held down power off and then slid the bar over a nice woman would talk to them and then a big truck would show up!

I let the kids play with an old flip phone, figuring they couldn't get up to too much trouble since it had no service.

Came downstairs to hear them talking about calling 911 - when I picked up the phone there were four outgoing calls!

Fortunately the big truck did not show up, so I guess the operator was able to figure out that there was not actually an emergency (or maybe the phone was too old to communicate its location).

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#149

Post by Marsymars »

nsteel wrote: post #132

As an end user today with a Pixel 6, what am I supposed to do if I can't rely on them to get this right? I NEED 999 to work. If not for me, then the people around me. Am I supposed to go and ring 999 to test it after every major update until Google gives an actual statement on the condition of their shitty product that has failed the most important use-case? That doesn't scale and if nothing else, Google should under…

> As an end user today with a Pixel 6, what am I supposed to do if I can't rely on them to get this right?

Buy a Pixel Watch! I’m sure emergency dialling won’t be broken on both the watch and phone at the same time!

But in seriousness, I personally just accept that cell phones aren’t a bulletproof way of accessing emergency services. At any point in time, my phone could be out of service, out of battery, dropped and broken, unconnected due to a network outage, etc. An emergency services bug is a qualitative difference, not a quantitative one. I qualitatively increase my odds of being able to access emergency services by running redundant systems - I have a VoIP landline, my partner has a cell phone with a different OS/mobile network than me, I carry a PLB if I’m in the wild. (I plan on getting an LTE-capable watch at some point - the Pixel Watch is quite unappealing for the price though.) (Will probably switch from PLB to sat messenger when the battery on this expires, which will double as an emergency service contact backup.)

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#150

Post by alistairSH »

crooked-v wrote: post #30

This article, dating back to January, lays it out pretty clearly: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-fixes-nightma... > If you're logged out, launching Microsoft Teams 10 times will result in 10 duplicate PhoneAccounts from Teams clogging your phone. Teams shouldn't do this, and Microsoft's update stopped Teams from doing this, but a bunch of duplicate PhoneAccounts also shouldn't be enough to bring Andro…

And why the hell does Google/Android allow 3rd party emergency phone service handlers at all?

Something critical like 911 should have one handler. Heck, I’d argue the phone system shouldn’t be allowed to be overloaded by a 3rd party at all. That just sounds like a bowl of buggy spaghetti.

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