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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#81

Post by Retric »

tyrfing wrote: post #64
compiler-guy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article claims that the BLM protests made little difference, and include a graph of various states comparing the amount of shoplifting with the amount of prosecution. Generally there doesn’t seem to be a correlation between states with large BLM protests and reduced prosecution. For example, Oregon had huge protests and weak government responses, and yet prosecutes large amounts of shoplifting. Blaming this on th…

> For example, Oregon had huge protests and weak government responses, and yet prosecutes large amounts of shoplifting. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/multnomah-co... There were not protests state wide, they were in a single county, the one in which shoplifting isn't prosecuted as much. A couple miles away, with different DAs, you will get arrested and prosecuted for even very minor theft. > Unseatin…

Protests draw from a much wider area than just where they physically take place.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#82

Post by mozman »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69
MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

It’s simple. Get a job and stop blaming the system and asking for handouts.

Petty shoplifters should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#83

Post by Eleison23 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #15
HWR_14 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless population (including those in shelters and cars) is < 1% of SF's population. Even if they used products at the same rate as the rest of the population and stole 100% of what they used, they would be responsible for less than half of retail shrinkage.

Homeless people steal stuff mostly not for their own consumption, but to sell it.

Do we now? Please tell me other ways homeless people are dishonest criminals in your eyes.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#84

Post by duxup »

fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Craigslist seems to still be a popular place for that too.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#85

Post by rhaway84773 »

tyrfing wrote: post #64
compiler-guy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article claims that the BLM protests made little difference, and include a graph of various states comparing the amount of shoplifting with the amount of prosecution. Generally there doesn’t seem to be a correlation between states with large BLM protests and reduced prosecution. For example, Oregon had huge protests and weak government responses, and yet prosecutes large amounts of shoplifting. Blaming this on th…

> For example, Oregon had huge protests and weak government responses, and yet prosecutes large amounts of shoplifting. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/multnomah-co... There were not protests state wide, they were in a single county, the one in which shoplifting isn't prosecuted as much. A couple miles away, with different DAs, you will get arrested and prosecuted for even very minor theft. > Unseatin…

And yet the shoplifting problem is across those county lines and across state lines even.

Whit contradicts the idea that the BLM protests are responsible.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#86

Post by LAC-Tech »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #37
skymast wrote: post #23

Manhattan is getting the law enforcement it demanded.

Not really. Walk around the city and you see more cops than ever. The issue is that police don’t actually prevent crime. Putting more cops on the street is like trying to use water to extinguish a grease fire.

So you need military, not police?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#87

Post by akiselev »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #73
silisili wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero liability or recourse for injuries sustained by reasonable force during the commission of a provable crime.

So again, if let’s say a waiter assaults their manager who isn’t covering the difference between their tips and minimum wage, that would be allowed? What if I slash the tires of an illegally parked car with an expired police placard?

When the GP says “reasonable force,” that “reasonable” is doing all the heavy lifting. It’s whatever he considers reasonable. Let’s also ignore that “provable” is decided by the courts which these vigilantes are meant to bypass.

Rules for thee but not for me.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#88

Post by psychphysic »

fragmede wrote: post #53

I've lived in the same city now (not NYC) for 10+ years, so I'm moderately connected with all sorts of people and not just a bubble of affluent tech people. So I'll be real, I know some sketchy people that probably do drugs or at least know where to find some. What I don't know, however, is any "fences". That is, someone that traffics in stolen goods. Or maybe I do, they don't exactly advertise their services. I've n…

Isn't eBay the same?

So many sellers you see selling 5 of some random.

It's basically those guys with a suitcase in markets selling whatever they got hold of that week.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#89

Post by LAC-Tech »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #69
MichaelCollins wrote: post #33

> "The stores are insured bro, why do you care if people steal from them? It's not your problem maaan." This is why I care. Criminals degrade society and we all suffer for their greed.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

You're constructing a strawman fantasy word where by people only do anti-social things because they need to live, thereby painting them as heoric, Robin Hood type figures.

Here on planet earth however, some people are just anti-social and understand nothing except force. No amount of education or counselling or whatever else will change that.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#90

Post by jlawson »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #73
silisili wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero liability or recourse for injuries sustained by reasonable force during the commission of a provable crime.

So again, if let’s say a waiter assaults their manager who isn’t covering the difference between their tips and minimum wage, that would be allowed? What if I slash the tires of an illegally parked car with an expired police placard?

The bizarre examples you keep bringing up are retaliatory actions, not preventative ones.

These are punishments after the fact. Nobody is suggesting to allow people to go around exacting punishment. We are suggesting to allow people to defend self, family, and property.

Assaulting the manager would not be allowed because it has nothing to do with physically preventing the crime from being carried out. Same with slashing tires.

Allowing people to defend themselves and their property has been done many times in history. It is, in fact, the historical standard, including in the history of your own community. If you want a practical example of how this could look, simply look into that history, just decades ago. Please dispense with these unproductive gotcha attempts.

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