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Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

cuimc.columbia.edu

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Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#71

Post by bsder »

warmwaffles wrote: post #25
milesskorpen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is in large part because people don't appreciate how much worse it could be. The EPA has been so successful we've become complacent.

The other problem is, the EPA isn't also all sunshine and rainbows https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-sp...

Blaming the EPA for an incident that happened at a horribly toxic mine is like blaming your doctor for your gall bladder exploding while it was being removed for being infectious.

The EPA is in charge of these horrible mines because the previous owners abandoned them to destroy the environment after the profitable stuff was pulled out of the ground.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#73

Post by ahaucnx »

superseeplus wrote: post #39
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

There was an interesting article in the NYT about how how very few people in India care about air quality enough to vote specifically for it even though poor air quality is a major contributor to mortality in India. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/22/world/asia/india-china-ai...

We offer air quality monitoring solutions and I talk to customers and people interested in air quality monitoring every day from many different countries.

What I see is a very different knowledge on air pollution. For example there is a pretty high awareness on the dangers of PM2.5 in China and some South East Asian Countries (e.g. Singapore) but relatively low awareness in the Middle East and some Eastern European countries.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#74

Post by flaviut »

defrost wrote: post #32
VancouverMan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We too often see environmental regulations becoming pointless and costly burdens, or them even being used as bureaucratic weapons, rather than something that brings a net benefit to society. Even minor construction and infrastructure projects can end up needing costly environmental assessments or studies prepared by "qualified experts", for example, even when the environmental impact is obviously negligible. Activist…

Quoted post unavailable.

This isn't a very charitable interpretation of this comment. The big example that comes to mind is the misuse of environmental assessments to block new housing in San Fransisco: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/califo...

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#75

Post by defrost »

VancouverMan wrote: post #43
defrost wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm merely pointing out the way that many average Westerners directly experience environmental regulations, and why they may become opposed to the idea, even if such regulation may be beneficial in some cases. Having to go through a costly and time-consuming permit process merely to trim or remove a tree in one's front yard will leave a sour taste in one's mouth when it comes to environmental regulations in general.…

> Having to go through a costly and time-consuming permit process merely to trim or remove a tree in one's front yard will leave a sour taste in one's mouth when it comes to environmental regulations in general.

To be honest that sounds a great deal more like some kind of central north american home owners association BS than any actual effective environmental regulation regarding pollution, toxic waste, etc.

Although if it's an actual requirement to keep shade levels up in where ever you live in order to legitimately avoid the broader basin becoming some kind of tarmac heat sink then I can find myself on the side of the trees,

> For example, somebody I know was telling me about how the environmental assessment process significantly delayed the replacement of a small, old, and poorly-maintained road bridge over a creek near the end of the rural road he lives on.

This sounds very small beer - I'd hope you support the broader and large range of environmental protections regarding runoffs, spill containments, etc. and arn't merely grandstanding the petty stuff to white ant the general concept of environmental regulation.

Do you have any specifics on why, precisely, the old bridge replacement was delayed?

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#76

Post by hombre_fatal »

maxbond wrote: post #57
fragmede wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the others, but for the last one, "reduce pollution" only works if people, who aren't bike riding hippies by a large margin, see any point in reducing pollution. Why is pollution even bad, anyway? Seriously, factories have been working for centuries and nothing has gone wrong, so why should we regulate where they can pour their waste or make them pay for environmental nonsense like carbon capture?…

(See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33713513 ) > Seriously, factories have been working for centuries and nothing has gone wrong, so why should we regulate where they can pour their waste or make them pay for environmental nonsense like carbon capture? Pardon? Factories have caused all sorts of problems with discharge, intentional or unintentional. Here's some from the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

Presumably, in that "Seriously, ..." quote, rather than asking an earnest question, the HNer was roleplaying their idea of the general population that's resistant to "reduce pollution" messaging.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#77

Post by brewdad »

drpgq wrote: post #47

So should one always run an air purifier in their office and bedroom?

I've started doing so. I bought a couple of large air purifiers for our living spaces and small ones for our bedrooms after the wildfires of 2020. At this pint, I run them 24/7. I've found my allergy symptoms are better and we don't have to dust as often.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#78

Post by et-al »

mullingitover wrote: post #34
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations I don't think anyone in the US is pro-pollution. There are people who are against whatever the people they don't like are for , so if one side is for regulations controlling pollution, then by gosh they're against it. At one point in the early to mid-1900s most of the working class was united politically in one party aga…

Well there's also the basic issue of voting for a candidate that claims to provide job security by keeping certain industries (e.g. mining coal) running. A paycheck to put food on the table tomorrow is more important than avoiding the chance of black lung ten years from now.

How many software engineers are doing mental gymnastics justifying their work in adtech so they can afford to live in the SF Bay Area?

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#79

Post by [deleted] »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #76
maxbond wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33713513 ) > Seriously, factories have been working for centuries and nothing has gone wrong, so why should we regulate where they can pour their waste or make them pay for environmental nonsense like carbon capture? Pardon? Factories have caused all sorts of problems with discharge, intentional or unintentional. Here's some from the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

Presumably, in that "Seriously, ..." quote, rather than asking an earnest question, the HNer was roleplaying their idea of the general population that's resistant to "reduce pollution" messaging.

[deleted]

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#80

Post by hombre_fatal »

warmwaffles wrote: post #49
mikeyouse wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear - in that example, a river was polluted by waste that a negligent private company had gathered for decades and then abandoned in an uncapped gold mine -- the EPA was only involved because they were cleaning up what was already a nightmare of pollution. The spill which accidentally released 100k tons of acidic water mixed with mining tails into the river was proceeded by the owners of that mine intentional…

> It's like blaming the dentist for scratching your gums while repairing a cavity. A big dose of, "Well sure, but if you had listened to them in the first place.. " Terrible analogy. The EPA knew there was heavy contamination in that mine, and yet decided to drill into the side of the mountain regardless knowing full well the implications of the heavy water getting released. There were other ways they could have gone…

Even if the EPA were negligent in its handling of the operation, fixating on that does seem to miss the point that they were only in that position because a private company created it and left it for someone else to handle. That's also the point you're missing from the analogy.

I don't think it's unexpected that an agency in charge of cleanups like this is going to have some blunders. Should they have handled it better? Fine. But that's not much of a statement.

I think you'd have to make a claim about the EPA's net impact/value to say something interesting here.

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