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Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

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Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#31

Post by soperj »

jrussino wrote: post #18
ldh0011 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a tangentially related note, it confuses me why so many people seem to think that the only reason to do away with fossil fuels as much as possible is climate change. Millions die prematurely from air pollution every year. Even if climate change was fake we should still be trying to use cleaner energy.

"What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_if_it%27s_a_big_hoax_an...

I honestly feel that people have got away with one with this type of thinking. In my province (British Columbia), there's a few major issues that have all been attributed to climate change; forest fires, flooding & decline of the salmon populations. Since there's this big boogeyman that they can't solve themselves (climate change), they don't even have to look into their forest management practices (spraying round-up to kill Aspen - a firebreak species - to plant mono-culture round-up ready pine stands - a serotineous species), or their off-shore fish farms that are located at the mouth of some of the most important rivers for salmon (spread sea lice and disease) or power generation (almost exclusively hydro dams), or that they've drained lakes for farm land and when the levees can't keep up the land floods again.

Great Barrier Reef is another prime example, pollution is causing a lot of issues, but you only hear of coral bleaching because of climate change.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#32

Post by defrost »

VancouverMan wrote: post #26
dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

We too often see environmental regulations becoming pointless and costly burdens, or them even being used as bureaucratic weapons, rather than something that brings a net benefit to society. Even minor construction and infrastructure projects can end up needing costly environmental assessments or studies prepared by "qualified experts", for example, even when the environmental impact is obviously negligible. Activist…

No post body was provided.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#33

Post by aidenn0 »

cactusplant7374 wrote: post #23
photon12 wrote: post #10

I have a friend who lives in an apartment near a major, major artery in Seattle. It's 6 lanes wide looking out from the balcony directly down onto the street. It's what they can afford in a somewhat close commute to work by bus (they can't afford a car). I lived in an apartment a block from I-5 for 6 years. I've made enough money to buy a house in a neighborhood away from traffic pollution. It was a major part of my…

How much would it cost to lower the PM 2.5 in his house? Even cut it in half? I don't know your friend but for some people they can afford air purifiers, running the A/C, and keeping the windows closed, but they feel it's not worth it. It's seen as a wasted expense. Especially true during Covid when many doctors could have retro-fitted their practices with HVAC filters. I think we really need an educational campaign.

"running the A/C," presupposes that the house has A/C. When a wildfire is near, I close up the house and run air-filters, but it can hit 100F inside in the afternoons.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#34

Post by mullingitover »

dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

> It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations

I don't think anyone in the US is pro-pollution. There are people who are against whatever the people they don't like are for, so if one side is for regulations controlling pollution, then by gosh they're against it.

At one point in the early to mid-1900s most of the working class was united politically in one party against the ownership class. Sometime around the Civil Rights Era, the two party system in the US executed a maneuver which split the working class vote against itself by pitting working class prejudices against working class self-interest. One party is the party of the ownership class, and this party throws red meat to the working class prejudices, while the other party espouses policies that benefit the working class economically while supporting socially progressive policies that the broad sections of the working class hold in disdain.

As a result we have big chunks of the working class enthusiastically voting against things that obviously serve them, like the right to clean air.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#35

Post by ergonaught »

dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

I think most people haven't directly experienced the problems so they've forgotten the justifications, and other assorted cognitive biases/distortions.

The city where I live was ranked the most polluted city in the USA a few decades ago, but people forget what it was like, and newer residents never knew what it was like, so they get very upset about Their Freedoms being encroached upon by EPA regulations and such.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#36

Post by mikeyouse »

warmwaffles wrote: post #25
milesskorpen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is in large part because people don't appreciate how much worse it could be. The EPA has been so successful we've become complacent.

The other problem is, the EPA isn't also all sunshine and rainbows https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-sp...

To be clear - in that example, a river was polluted by waste that a negligent private company had gathered for decades and then abandoned in an uncapped gold mine -- the EPA was only involved because they were cleaning up what was already a nightmare of pollution. The spill which accidentally released 100k tons of acidic water mixed with mining tails into the river was proceeded by the owners of that mine intentionally releasing over four million tons of actual tailings as part of their regular operating procedures.

The EPA and other orgs are responsible for the cleanup of thousands of polluted areas and superfund sites created by negligent businesses who wantonly polluted and then abandoned their responsibilities leaving it up to their kids and their kids' kids to clean it up.

It's like blaming the dentist for scratching your gums while repairing a cavity. A big dose of, "Well sure, but if you had listened to them in the first place.. "

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#37

Post by bwb »

warmwaffles wrote: post #25
milesskorpen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is in large part because people don't appreciate how much worse it could be. The EPA has been so successful we've become complacent.

The other problem is, the EPA isn't also all sunshine and rainbows https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-sp...

Nothing humans do is perfect. The EPA does a vast amount of good.

Do you agree?

I wish we treated people and government like baseball hit stats. Hitting above 600 is a win…

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#39

Post by superseeplus »

dagmx wrote: post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

There was an interesting article in the NYT about how how very few people in India care about air quality enough to vote specifically for it even though poor air quality is a major contributor to mortality in India.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/22/world/asia/india-china-ai...

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#40

Post by wongarsu »

Syonyk wrote: post #28
borissk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're an optimist - if we end up with a nuclear war (which was avoided a few times by pure accident) or runaway global warming, future generations, if any, may think of current times as a golden age...

That's not how history typically works. The group that destroys the place is not regarded as heroes, they're regarded as a warning of things to be avoided. If any of those things happen, there will be very strong taboos against anything that would begin to lead down the same roads again.

Exactly. If we experience global nuclear warfare or runaway climate change, the generation that caused it will be a cautionary tale, not "the golden age"
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