Live data from Hacker News

Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

cuimc.columbia.edu

21–30 of 150 posts

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is in large part because people don't appreciate how much worse it could be. The EPA has been so successful we've become complacent.

Other would say, "The EPA has been so successful, to keep their budget growing, they have become overzealous."

Are you able to provide an example that would support the claims of these others?

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#22
I may have missed it, but where's the statement about what those black spots are in the micrographs and how that was determined. It seems like they're just declared as atmospheric particulates but where's that determined exactly? It would be great to purify them somehow and run the slurry under an electron microscope. Something along these lines of https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-02/the-micro... to see how such raw particulates accumulate in some tissue in the body.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#23

I have a friend who lives in an apartment near a major, major artery in Seattle. It's 6 lanes wide looking out from the balcony directly down onto the street. It's what they can afford in a somewhat close commute to work by bus (they can't afford a car). I lived in an apartment a block from I-5 for 6 years. I've made enough money to buy a house in a neighborhood away from traffic pollution. It was a major part of my…

How much would it cost to lower the PM 2.5 in his house? Even cut it in half?

I don't know your friend but for some people they can afford air purifiers, running the A/C, and keeping the windows closed, but they feel it's not worth it. It's seen as a wasted expense. Especially true during Covid when many doctors could have retro-fitted their practices with HVAC filters. I think we really need an educational campaign.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#24
post #17

I have a friend who lives in an apartment near a major, major artery in Seattle. It's 6 lanes wide looking out from the balcony directly down onto the street. It's what they can afford in a somewhat close commute to work by bus (they can't afford a car). I lived in an apartment a block from I-5 for 6 years. I've made enough money to buy a house in a neighborhood away from traffic pollution. It was a major part of my…

It might be a bit because of the density, but housing is mainly cheaper near busy roads mainly because most people would prefer to live elsewhere, just like you.

I think the unstated premise of that comment was that it's bad that we push the worst consequences of our societal choices onto the poorest people. Not that the mechanism by which we do it is mysterious.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#25
post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

I think it is in large part because people don't appreciate how much worse it could be. The EPA has been so successful we've become complacent.

The other problem is, the EPA isn't also all sunshine and rainbows https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/09/us/colorado-epa-mine-river-sp...

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#26
post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

We too often see environmental regulations becoming pointless and costly burdens, or them even being used as bureaucratic weapons, rather than something that brings a net benefit to society.

Even minor construction and infrastructure projects can end up needing costly environmental assessments or studies prepared by "qualified experts", for example, even when the environmental impact is obviously negligible.

Activists and others opposed to development projects will sometimes raise specious environmental "concerns" to try to derail those developments by getting them tied up with red tape.

Even something as simple as trimming or cutting down a tree on private property can become a huge hassle in some municipalities, requiring permits and other bureaucratic headaches.

Of course reasonable people will push back against such regulation. The economic costs that are imposed often far outweigh the environmental benefits, if any benefits even actually exist.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#27
post #17

I have a friend who lives in an apartment near a major, major artery in Seattle. It's 6 lanes wide looking out from the balcony directly down onto the street. It's what they can afford in a somewhat close commute to work by bus (they can't afford a car). I lived in an apartment a block from I-5 for 6 years. I've made enough money to buy a house in a neighborhood away from traffic pollution. It was a major part of my…

It might be a bit because of the density, but housing is mainly cheaper near busy roads mainly because most people would prefer to live elsewhere, just like you.

That would explain a difference in price per square foot, but it doesn't explain why there are fewer small homes built further from busy roads. If anything you'd expect the opposite if it were just a reflection of people's preferences.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#28
post #20

Future generations will look back in horror at our air quality in the same way that we look back at medieval sewer systems

You're an optimist - if we end up with a nuclear war (which was avoided a few times by pure accident) or runaway global warming, future generations, if any, may think of current times as a golden age...

That's not how history typically works. The group that destroys the place is not regarded as heroes, they're regarded as a warning of things to be avoided.

If any of those things happen, there will be very strong taboos against anything that would begin to lead down the same roads again.

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#29
post #6

The pictures of those lymph nodes are shocking. In the Methods section, they state that > LN tissues were obtained from [...] LiveOnNY, the local organ procurement organization for the New York metropolitan area. which makes it sound like the samples came from residents of NYC. NYC air quality probably isn't great , but those lymph nodes looked so bad that I assumed they must have come from a hyperpolluted megacity l…

NYC air quality is quite good, especially considering the density. I agree in principle re society's addiction to cars and I'd love if there were fewer in NYC, but, interestingly, the subway system actually has orders of magnitude worse air than street level: https://www.curbed.com/2021/02/mta-subway-air-quality-pollut....

Re: Decades of air pollution undermine the immune system

#30
post #2

Anecdotally, moving from India to North America really helped my health. I know this study is about long term effects but I believe even short term , it’s quite noticeable. It’s why I find it perplexing why so many people in the US want to do away with EPA regulations. Not only was pollution rampant in many Americans lifetimes, it’s completely observable how bad pollution is elsewhere in the world for people.

We too often see environmental regulations becoming pointless and costly burdens, or them even being used as bureaucratic weapons, rather than something that brings a net benefit to society. Even minor construction and infrastructure projects can end up needing costly environmental assessments or studies prepared by "qualified experts", for example, even when the environmental impact is obviously negligible. Activist…

... they commented on a thread about an article proving exactly that benefit... :|
Post reply on HN