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The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

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Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#111

Post by kerblang »

tsylba wrote: post #90
user3939382 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build This concept is almost tautological since the only conceivable alternative would be universal omniscience.

I might have add "upon itself". There is much to say about what is reality, and you can bring researcher like Hoffmann stating that we see of reality only what is good for our peak survival (don't need infrared, don't see infrared). Hyperreality is something else altogether. First, it's a common theme in postmodernist to state we live in a construct culturally accepted and ever evolving. Hyperreality states that we a…

I honestly don't think Beaudrillard would have tolerated any philosophical hairsplitting about perceived realities - he recognized a "real" reality, and a shallow, artificial replacement, and was darned cynical & bitter about it.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#112

Post by giraffe_lady »

WalterBright wrote: post #101
giraffe_lady wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I have been a christian all my life, and I am also unambiguously very far to the left explicitly because that is the only way I can see to truly act within my religious beliefs in the world right now. So I'm not sure how far this framework can get you, really. I certainly don't find it to have much explanatory power on any of these issues. I also think it could be rephrased in a way that would make it easy to…

> that is the only way I can see to truly act within my religious beliefs I've been unable to find in the Bible the phrase that says "take from bob and give it to bill and you will be righteous". My interpretation of the Bible is that Jesus encouraged people to freely give of their own to help others. I'm genuinely curious where your leftist views derive from Christian principles.

You've already mischaracterized my views and further I'm not particularly educated or skilled in debate or theology, nor do I enjoy defending the deep foundations of my self from what is likely to be a hostile audience on the internet. So you will have to remain curious, sorry.

But I am lucky enough to have received a centuries-long tradition of christian radicalism, and came to no conclusions on my own. You can read john chysostom, or mother maria, or tolstoy, or talk to your own priest. The path is well-worn and there are many ways to find it.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#113

Post by jancsika »

tsylba wrote: post #80

Once a media is accepted and known by the multitude it becomes performative, a spectacle where authenticity vanished preempted by new social rules. Beaudrillard's hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build, akin to an AI learning from data generated by another AI. It seems our current internet culture - heavily centralized, and universally used…

"Authenticity" here is so poorly defined I'm afraid it could conceivably end up `rm -rf`ing my entire hard disk.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#114

Post by krapp »

user3939382 wrote: post #84
ldldldo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but "contemporary" isn't the right adjective. This is the culture of the moralist left, of the blue cities, of the Coast, of Progressivism as the only moral ideology In the US, at least, if you engage with conservative culture, with Christians, with rural people, with the people who are tired of "cancel culture," you will still find plenty of grace. I'm an independent. Over the last few years, it has be…

> everyone could stand to listen to Christ on this topic Yup. The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for.

>The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for.

First of all, that isn't new. The Renaissance, when philosophy, science and law began to divorce themselves from religion, started about 700 years ago.

Second, nothing useful taught by religion actually requires religion itself. You don't need to believe in salvation through faith, or the Holy Trinity, or Hell and brimstone for the teachings of Jesus to be useful. That isn't religion, that's philosophy.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#115

Post by JSchmoe »

logicalmonster wrote: post #88
JSchmoe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd make no sense to do. The "Twitter mob" remains angry and now a few more people are annoyed that you openly gave a non-apology.

The reason I brought up that phrase is that Scott Adams of the Dilbert cartoon endorsed Hillary in 2016 using this exact language, despite actually liking Trump. > "So I’ve decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for President, for my personal safety." If I recall correctly, he says that merely that endorsement, however transparently fake it was, got a lot of people off of his back.

Huh, people are weird!

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#116

Post by user3939382 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #110
user3939382 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone could stand to listen to Christ on this topic Yup. The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for.

I think my intense aversion to Christianity originates from knowing only those people who take the Bible literally and have true faith in the stories that are told. Hell actually exists, gay people go there, divorce is fine though, oh don't worry about that line, etc. It's all very pick and choose. I think I would have had much more interest in faith/religion if they acknowledged the myth component of their stories,…

IMHO faith can only exist and have meaning (including to God) when juxtaposed with doubt. If God manifested in Times Square as a 2,000 foot glowing being, would admitting your belief in His existence mean anything?

If any theist says they have no doubt, I’d first say they’re possibly lying, maybe to themselves.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#117

Post by eastbound »

inglor_cz wrote: post #92
eastbound wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, we tell lies, to people who pretend to believe them. Everyone lies and we know it, our companies have mottos and everyone knows they’re fluff, and we teach kids to “thrive in ambiguity”, which is a beautiful phrase I’ve found on a job offer and which I have found symptomatic of our economy. I still wonder what it was like to live in ex-RDA. Did people tell lies that others pretended to believe?

I wonder if a descent to full-blown Soviet "Vranyo" (brazen lying) can be prevented. As in: "They lie to us, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying to us, and we keep pretending to believe them." Pretty much the only brake pad on that machine is that capitalism actually requires at least some efficiency from the players, and a web of lies like that will destroy any institution. Bu…

I often compare science environments to general environments. In science, if you’re wrong, there’s no pardon: Your rocket doesn’t land on the moon, so you gotta keep your speech clear, your expertise precise, and your reputation perfect. In speech environments, if you’re handwaving it and are dishonest, you win the market.

Science environments are better suited for me, but I get bashed in general environments…

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#118

Post by WalterBright »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #112
WalterBright wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that is the only way I can see to truly act within my religious beliefs I've been unable to find in the Bible the phrase that says "take from bob and give it to bill and you will be righteous". My interpretation of the Bible is that Jesus encouraged people to freely give of their own to help others. I'm genuinely curious where your leftist views derive from Christian principles.

You've already mischaracterized my views and further I'm not particularly educated or skilled in debate or theology, nor do I enjoy defending the deep foundations of my self from what is likely to be a hostile audience on the internet. So you will have to remain curious, sorry. But I am lucky enough to have received a centuries-long tradition of christian radicalism, and came to no conclusions on my own. You can read…

You're safe with me, as I eschew use of rhetorical tricks and traps in debate (people try them all the time on me). I do my best to rely on facts and reason. I only take sides that I believe are correct.

I believe that if one espouses honest opinions, and they don't hold up to facts and reason, one should re-evaluate those opinions, or acquire a stronger basis for them.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#119

Post by Natsu »

WalterBright wrote: post #101
giraffe_lady wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I have been a christian all my life, and I am also unambiguously very far to the left explicitly because that is the only way I can see to truly act within my religious beliefs in the world right now. So I'm not sure how far this framework can get you, really. I certainly don't find it to have much explanatory power on any of these issues. I also think it could be rephrased in a way that would make it easy to…

> that is the only way I can see to truly act within my religious beliefs I've been unable to find in the Bible the phrase that says "take from bob and give it to bill and you will be righteous". My interpretation of the Bible is that Jesus encouraged people to freely give of their own to help others. I'm genuinely curious where your leftist views derive from Christian principles.

Actually the Apostles try having "all things in common" for a while in Acts 4 or so, find that their initial ideas don't work out that great (see, e.g. Ananias), but eventually set up institutions of communal living with some monasteries and such.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#120

Post by dropit_sphere »

krapp wrote: post #114
user3939382 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone could stand to listen to Christ on this topic Yup. The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for.

>The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for. First of all, that isn't new. The Renaissance, when philosophy, science and law began to divorce themselves from religion, started about 700 years ago. Second, nothing useful taught by religion actually requires religion itself. You don't need…

>Second, nothing useful taught by religion actually requires religion itself.

This hinges very much on your definition of "useful;" if you don't believe in God or the resurrection of the dead, then talk concerning them is of course pointless. But if you do, they are very useful indeed.

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