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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#141

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

tasuki wrote: post #96
throoooooowa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You yourself are missing words in your communication like the word "have" in the quote above. Also, I don't know enough linguistic rules to correct you, but colloquially at least your title is better understood if you write it as "Why do some people not communicate clearly?" Thanks, corrected the mistakes. However, I wasn't referring to missing words (which can be inferred) or bad grammar. Actually I wasn't referri…

> However, I wasn't referring to missing words (which can be inferred) or bad grammar. Actually I wasn't referring to written speech in particular. I was referring mostly to the way one structures their thought and expresses it to someone else. It would appear that your initial post failed to communicate that clearly to awb.

It's also possible for a person to poorly apply their reading comprehension skills. FWIW, I did get the intended meaning from OP's post.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#142

Post by BeetleB »

raybb wrote: post #71

Does anyone have any recommendations for books/courses for improving verbal communication? Not talking about pubic speaking, like toastmasters, but improving your ability to do things like mentioned by OP? I feel like there's lots of stuff about this on writing but less related to verbal communication.

Crucial Conversations

Difficult Conversations

Nonviolent Communications

Many here on HN get PTSD with the last one, but ignore them - everyone I've engaged in on HN that criticizes the book hasn't read it (the book actually agrees with their talking points!) However, I will say that there is a cult-like following the book has (NVC chapters in various cities, etc), and would recommend you read the book and avoid the cult. The latter often adds stuff that is not in the book.

From my experience, merely reading wasn't enough. I took notes from the books, and compared the content across all three before it all really started clicking.

And expect it to take years to change your communication style. Don't give up, though. I'm nowhere near where I want to be but I am better. Even though it's hard for me to change, it is easy to recognize when others are practicing it, and I can witness first hand how well it works. Most of these people have not read the books, which in a sense speaks to the universality of the approach.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#143

Post by gmarx »

Poor communicators do not try to imagine the state of anyone outside their own heads. So they fail to explain things that the other person doesn't know, and over explain things they find more interesting or relevant than the answer to the actual question asked.

Also, we seem to have lost respect for editors in writing and it may have spilled over into oral communication. When answering a technical question it would help if people kept the old inverted pyramid structure in mind. Instead people indulge in a "let me take you on a fascinating intellectual journey to parts unknown; Will I ever answer the question you asked? Who knows? But I appreciate your patience and indulgence".

I will often interrupt a few minutes into a monologue that doesn't seem to be circling my question and say "It's ok if you think I asked the wrong question, but in that case you need to say 'the answer to the question you asked is X, now here is why I think it is the wrong question...'"

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#144

Post by Izkata »

willcipriano wrote: post #11

Lots of people are afraid to say "I don't know" in my experience. Although, sometimes people ask me a question where I have to work out in my head what the answer is and it feels weird to sit there in silence for 15 seconds as I do so.

> and it feels weird to sit there in silence for 15 seconds as I do so.

This is what filler words like "so..", "um", "ah.." are for. They mean "I'm thinking and will respond in a moment". I'll also often start the answer sentence even if I'm still thinking, but very slowly to stretch out the thinking time. "Soo.. if.. the... thing does.. that.. then we have to foobar."

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#146

Post by joshz404 »

BeetleB wrote: post #123

Some years ago I decided to take communications seriously and read a bunch of books on it. It was a major shift in how I view it. Good communications isn't merely about speaking well[1], but about handling how others speak. If you are frustrated with people never giving simple answers to simple questions (as I often am), it is you who needs to adapt and change strategies. The expectation that a question that should h…

Curious what your book recommendations would be?

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#147

Post by eXpl0it3r »

lightbendover wrote: post #76
bawolff wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are truly bad at comminicating. The other side of this, trying to insist on yes/no answers to questions that are not yes/no questions is also a bit of a recipe for disaster. > EDIT: I see some answers referring to learning disorders, disabilities, anxiety, not knowing the issue at hand. I'm talking about people which do know the topic Some learning disorders do exhibit really good math and logic skills bu…

I would go further and say that "yes" and "no" are never the only acceptable answers to most questions unless you are able to prove the answer is deterministic. "will you have the project complete by Friday?" -> you may be able to state "no," but there are certainly caveats to any "yes" answer. "will you try to have the project complete by Friday?" - in this case, "yes" is most likely an acceptable answer, but you st…

The problem for me for cases like your example is, that I need an answer that I can work with. If the answer to that question doesn't start or end with "yes" or "no", I'm then left with having to read between the lines of whatever rambling answer I received to determine, whether they're more likely to be finished by Friday or not.

"Well I started with this module and Bob is still doing stuff, but it seems like some work still. Ah, also have this meeting tomorrow - btw do you know if Alice is joining? Did we say you prepare the slides or does she do it?" leaves me hanging not knowing whether they'll manage or not and we're off to a side discussion.

"Yes, unless Bob can't get this merged until tomorrow." or "No, this became way bigger than expected. Do you need to communicate this to someone, or is it blocking you and we might be able to split it up to unblock you?" are way better answers. It shows that the person understands the scope of their task, they can estimate roughly the amount of work, but also stay open to prioritize or compromise.

Even "I don't know yet, as I first have to read through this document to get a grasp of the scope. I'll come back to you in the afternoon" is a way better answer that's neither yes or no, but you take the responsibility to find out.

IMHO you can pretty much always provide clear answers, but it requires for you to understand the scope, the shared context and some social intelligence to realize, that the other person probably has a reason for asking and that the questions or anecdote that just came to mind should probably be of lower priority.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#149

Post by _tom_ »

thwayunion wrote: post #94
throoooooowa wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You yourself are missing words in your communication like the word "have" in the quote above. Also, I don't know enough linguistic rules to correct you, but colloquially at least your title is better understood if you write it as "Why do some people not communicate clearly?" Thanks, corrected the mistakes. However, I wasn't referring to missing words (which can be inferred) or bad grammar. Actually I wasn't referri…

> I was referring mostly to the way one structures their thought and expresses it to someone else. 1. it's still relevant in spoken language. Perhaps more so -- inflection, intonation, volume, and speed add a lot of subtlety to vocal communication that is even more difficult to pick up on than written communication. Pauses indicate punctuation. Tone can indicate something is less important. Volume and speed can be us…

People who can introspect as you are doing here are rarely the problem.

It's the people who never think about other people's mental models (or even their own!) that are frequently hard to communicate with.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#150

Post by alkonaut »

Communication is an important skill. Describing a system or specification. Quickly laying out alternative solutions with an exact focus on what makes those alternatives distinct. Conversely effectively asking a stakeholder the questions that answers which solution is the acceptable one among a set of solutions they might not yet realize is closed. As a developer this is one of the most important skills. It’s at least as important as the art of writing code itself.

Now, there is always differences in communication style so someone you consider a poor communicator might be considered a good communicator by someone else. Some people are also better at verbal communication than written or vice versa. Find a mode of communication that works.

But apart from that, chances are that poor communicators are simply poor developers (or managers, or designers, or whatever) because of it.

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