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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#131

Post by OJFord »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

Ok, so what, you ban warrant-less data-sharing with governments? Warrant-from-certain-trusted-countries-less data-sharing with governments? Can't just ban data-sharing with governments, there's the infamous US 'CLOUD' act and surely similar/less-specific but essentially amounting to the same legislation all over the place.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#132

Post by throwaway4aday »

uniqueuid wrote: post #61
karp773 wrote: post #20

The very fact that not a single western social network is permitted to operate in China is a sufficient reason to ban TikTok in America.

That argument makes no sense, because we do not want to mirror other countries. Instead, there are substantial arguments about freedom of speech and accountability. Even though they are messy, they are what we need to apply here because they are a legally binding framework that we built over decades. By the way, I found Levitski and Ziblatt's book "How Democracies Die" [1] a pretty good treatment of these issues of b…

How does freedom of speech or more specifically the first amendment apply to a foreign owned and operated platform? If you reframed it as something else would it be different in your mind? Say, you had a foreign news service that employed American citizens to read news that was perhaps even sourced in part from American reporters but they editorialized it so that it always favored their side and belittled the American side. Would it be unconstitutional to forbid this entity to operate within the US?

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#133

Post by sgu999 »

piva00 wrote: post #119
plaguepilled wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very relevant difference between a country which affords you civil rights surveiling you, and a country that you are not a civilian of surveiling you. Its not just about being "fine" with one surveiling you and not the other.

So many argument threads on HN (and other discussion platforms) could be avoided if people understood that level and degree of issues matter. It seems to always start from blanket statements or false dichotomies where "if your country does X why are you not ok with C country doing X?" and completely ignoring the nuances in between.

And in this case it's even C country going Y.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#134

Post by zug_zug »

p0pcult wrote: post #106

A recent tiktok trend hitting my city and others seems to be calling in/airdropping/swatting/posting active shooter threats at local schools. So far, this has shut down my kid's school several times this year. TikTok gets to be the vector for this new scale of virality, America loses future economic competitiveness. Who is the winner in this scenario? https://www.spieltimes.com/news/what-is-tiktoks-active-shoot... ht…

What's the connection to China?

Is there a belief that China was slower at removing these videos that an American firm would be? Because that's the substantive question.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#135

Post by jasonlotito »

solardev wrote: post #126
pjc50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

China isn't going to listen to your rules. Ban whatever you want, Chinese companies don't have to comply, and don't have to tell you when they're not complying... Unless you audit every foreign app's source code and sign its binaries, those laws are meaningless. And if you do that you're really just swapping foreign advertising for domestic wiretapping. shrug Lose-lose.

> China isn't going to listen to your rules

And then they are banned. Not because they are China or TikTok, but because they break specific rules we hold everyone to.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#136

Post by Xeoncross »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

Global rules for user privacy would be fantastic!

But lets start by simply banning the most criminal organizations first. If the KGB, CCP, or any other group known for imprisoning and killing literally millions of people is running a social network we need to block it right away.

Bytedance has forced CCP members on their board and you can bet the government uses the user data, behavior data and biometrics to help squash dissent.

Then we can move on to blocking the networks sharing data with less dangerous groups.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#137

Post by 404mm »

TikTok is only a part of a much larger problem that US was not ready to deal with.

Sure, TikTok having “coarse location” permissions seems like a very bad idea, give the fact it’s Chinese owned app. This is the obvious one and I personally absolutely cannot understand how this is allowed to happen. (And there is more… Russian owned family tracking apps for example)

But the larger and harder problem to solve is social media and their involvement in targeted advertising, potentially having a significant impact on election results. This applies equally to all platforms. Where do we draw the line? Should amount of money determine who gets elected? How do we know the money even comes from the parties and not from other governments? Or a new problem we have- should the richest person be able to own very influential social media? This is no longer a democracy.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#138

Post by amelius »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

> ban surveillance by apps

==>> How??? <<==

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#139

Post by solardev »

jasonlotito wrote: post #135
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China isn't going to listen to your rules. Ban whatever you want, Chinese companies don't have to comply, and don't have to tell you when they're not complying... Unless you audit every foreign app's source code and sign its binaries, those laws are meaningless. And if you do that you're really just swapping foreign advertising for domestic wiretapping. shrug Lose-lose.

> China isn't going to listen to your rules And then they are banned. Not because they are China or TikTok, but because they break specific rules we hold everyone to.

You won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#140

Post by judge2020 »

404mm wrote: post #137

TikTok is only a part of a much larger problem that US was not ready to deal with. Sure, TikTok having “coarse location” permissions seems like a very bad idea, give the fact it’s Chinese owned app. This is the obvious one and I personally absolutely cannot understand how this is allowed to happen. (And there is more… Russian owned family tracking apps for example) But the larger and harder problem to solve is social…

> How do we know the money even comes from the parties and not from other governments?

I'm sure Canada would say that this isn't important..

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