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Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

danfitdegree.hashnode.dev

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Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#191

Post by iKlsR »

ljm wrote: post #62
praxulus wrote: post #10

It'd be great if google offered an option for a video call with a reviewer for $500/hr as an escalation option for businesses who are getting nowhere with the regular process. Ideally you'd get a refund if you turned out to be correct, but I'd be happy even without that.

That’s a terrible idea. What if instead they were held accountable to criminal and civil processes and if Google didn’t meet their end of a contract they were accountable for it. They can offer their support via a legal accountability mechanism and not a paid-for escalation.

Funnily enough I once saw a post here with someone at fb I believe who had an entire side business like this for a couple hundred where they escalated issues to their pal in support.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#192

Post by 6510 »

_yb2s wrote: post #166
euler_angles wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about the tone of those statements. But just how much dystopian bureaucracy can one take before expressing displeasure at the dystopian bureaucracy?

Once you've lost your cool you've also lost.... so take as much as you can!

You are just embracing the dystopia at this point.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#193

Post by Zak »

rurban wrote: post #151
Zak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually really problematic - both that the code is paywalled and that an inspector would be cagey about it.

That's an established existing cartel. app store regulation is a new forming cartel, without any formal body nor oversight.

Even a cartel would be easier to deal with. Google could then say "your Play Store Certified Compliance Specialist can tell you what's wrong".

It seems more likely that what's going on here is the issue was flagged by a bot which doesn't tell the human reviewer why it thinks there's a problem, and the reviewer believes they will be in more trouble if they make a mistake in overruling the bot than if they make a mistake in agreeing with it.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#194

Post by CamperBob2 »

rrwo wrote: post #64
CamperBob2 wrote: post #19

Legislation is clearly the only answer, assuming it is impractical for developers to band together in a union or other collective that would be large enough to harm Google's business or at least catch their eye. Contact your state and Federal representatives. Provide them with a copy of this transcript, and maybe attach a copy of your financial statement showing what's at stake. Eiter way, whatever happens, these com…

How is legislation going to help? of anything, countries will add their own bizarre restrictilns to protect children, morality, religion and politicians. "We're sorry, but your app will be removed until you can satiafy legal reatrictions for Saudi Arabia, Popua New Guinea, France and Alabama."

The notion that companies with a presence on the Internet have to obey laws all over the planet is not how the Internet was ever supposed to work. Eventually people will remember that we used to think that way, and why.

So, as Google is a US company, US law would apply.

Developers in other countries would presumably benefit from the same requirement to provide a human support contact. If not, that's unfortunate.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#196

Post by CoastalCoder »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #132
mfDjB wrote: post #75

What I've learned from Google is that you are always talking to a bot, it just happens to be that some of those bots are human. Even though they are walking and talking simians they are executing a conversation script and have no agency and ability to control an outcome spare the most banal common issues.

It's funny. Google will flood us with captchas if it thinks we're not human but they subject people to inhuman treatment whenever we need to contact them. Bots for me but not for thee.

Power asymmetry is vexing.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#197

Post by danuker »

sgjohnson wrote: post #82
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like in this case it needs to be a craft union or industrial union: a union made up of laborers of a craft or industry (in this case, mobile app developers). Get enough developers of high-profile apps on board, and now you have negotiating power. If they balk, make a union-controlled app store, threaten to sell apps only on the union store.

Quoted post unavailable.

When Google loses an app developer, maybe they lose .1% of revenue.

When an app developer loses Google, they might lose 100% of their revenue (if they only develop for Android).

This fundamental mismatch in bargaining power is why unions are needed for fair resource allocation.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#198

Post by sircastor »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #117
dekhn wrote: post #14

Is there any large group representing App developers that could manage the large-scale negotiation and legal wrangling required to force Apple and Google to be more helpful when rejecting legitimate applications? When I worked in Google (Ads, then later in Recommendations for Play and youtube) people often said this was intention to avoid teaching spammers how to get around the rules. But it's clear there are enough…

It's insane enough that we even allow corporations to own platforms and users. Software development should be free. They should not be able to reject anything. We should reject that notion entirely instead of playing the game they made up.

It may be hard to believe, but free software development stacks are a relatively new thing. When I was growing up, you had to buy the compiler, and the documentation for how to use the tools, and the language. (Though I think most 70s and 80s era computers came with BASIC)

While I sympathize with the idea that this should be open and free and easy, there are too many bad actors out there, so we can’t have nice things. And for every “free” platform and language and toolset there is either a developer who’s being funded by some other source or not being paid at all.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#199

Post by 6510 »

iKlsR wrote: post #191
ljm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a terrible idea. What if instead they were held accountable to criminal and civil processes and if Google didn’t meet their end of a contract they were accountable for it. They can offer their support via a legal accountability mechanism and not a paid-for escalation.

Funnily enough I once saw a post here with someone at fb I believe who had an entire side business like this for a couple hundred where they escalated issues to their pal in support.

It's done all over, I'm not even mad.

Re: Two weeks of dealing with Google as a developer

#200

Post by haimez »

6510 wrote: post #192
_yb2s wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you've lost your cool you've also lost.... so take as much as you can!

You are just embracing the dystopia at this point.

It’s important to understand that in order to navigate the world we live in, sometimes you’ll need help from someone “on the inside” and often those people don’t have direct control over the outcome but can be very valuable allies. Taking your frustration out on those people is directly against your own interest.
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