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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

181–190 of 242 posts

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#181
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather just provide UBI. Pay them to do nothing instead of paying them to make everybody else's lives worse.

This is payment and structured days, which ensures that people have a good reference for applying to other jobs. It's somewhat better than a UBI

It'd be better than UBI if they weren't making everybody's lives worse in the process.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#182

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

Airports also have an incentive to keep the TSA lines as variable as possible.

If the line can sometimes take 5 minutes and sometimes take 2 hours, you need to arrive 2 hours early. And then if it actually takes just 5 minutes - that’s 1:55 left for buying food and shopping.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#183
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you want to pick your seat, pay for it. Ya its called a ticket, which are typically received in exchange for money. Should airlines also charge a disembarking fee? pay up or don't get off the plane? Seems like that's more money left on the table, captive audience and all.

You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for. Disregarding the kidnapping part of your straw man: we also do already charge for priority disembark. This is why premium seating is typically near the boarding door.

> You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for.

The service I'm paying for includes an assigned seat, just like my ticket to the movies does. Its not justifiable for an airline - A federally regulated industry, not some mom and pop local business - to intentionally degrade the quality of their product to nickle and dime their customers.

Lets expand your premise a little: Should toll roads charge families extra tolls if they are in the same car together? There's revenue there - a family is certainly getting more use out of the "privledge" of traveling together than two strangers, or one person. Should NFL stadiums, movie theaters, concerts charge extra for booking seats that are adjacent? Revenue and 'Value' there as well. How about hotels? Trying to book 3 rooms for a company-conference visit, it'll be $100 for the first room, $250 for the second, and $500 for the 3rd.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#184
post #16

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

Right now American seats basic economy in the middle seats and main in isle or windows. The system will try and seat family’s together if they are on the same reservation and the kids are under 15.

So you’re best to pay for seats if you want to be together. However, if you pay for seats and they change your flight on you, those seats are ‘lost and you need to call for a refund.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#185
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, there are potentially plenty of costs that can't be recouped when a flight gets canceled. I have an 8 day vacation coming up with my lodging and rental car prepaid and non-refundable at this point. Delta has already changed my flight once in a way that would have cost me two days at my destination. I was able to reroute and actually ended up with a better schedule than my original flight but if they cancel or c…

Large non-cancelable expenses are probably one area where travel insurance can make sense. When you can mostly unwind things in light of travel disruptions, illness, etc. mostly not. (Or, when you can, maybe make refundable reservations even if there's something of a premium.)

Travel insurance can be bizarrely difficult, though. My travel delay coverage covers "mechanical" issues but not "operational" ones. Plane broke? Covered (if you can get the airline to admit it). Pilot couldn't be found? Not covered. Why the difference? No one knows!

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

Airports also have an incentive to keep the TSA lines as variable as possible. If the line can sometimes take 5 minutes and sometimes take 2 hours, you need to arrive 2 hours early. And then if it actually takes just 5 minutes - that’s 1:55 left for buying food and shopping.

It's not TSA, but I was particularly dumbfounded at Heathrow Airport when security exited straight into an extended shopping corridor of champagne, jewelry, and caviar.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#187
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels do tend to have a cancelation policy though (which is increasingly a day or two in advance rather than 6pm day of even for for not-charged-in-advance flexible reservations). You pay in advance for tons of other services (concerts, plays, etc.) and they're often non-refundable. Trains and transit also pay in advance in my experience. The main difference with planes is that, while you can pay for a ticket at the…

It's not about prepay VS postpay, though. It's about whether you HAVE to prebuy or whether you can pay at the door. Planes don't have the option to just show up and buy a ticket.

>Planes don't have the option to just show up and buy a ticket.

Sure they do. Maybe not literally at the door because you have to go through security first. But they'll sell you one at the ticket counter if there are seats available.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#188
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

I can get that first rows of the plane or places with extra leg space could be charged, but charge for selecting the last row of the plane? thats just greediness

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

Outside the USA, especially at smaller airports, xraying all the bags is something thats only done to meet the rules. The staff don't care what you have in your bag - if security has a queue, they'll just pick 100 random people and tell them to skip security and go straight through to departures. Likewise, if there is only 2 people on duty to search bags identified that need searching, and they're busy, then any liqu…

xraying all the bags is something thats only done to meet the rules. The staff don't care what you have in your bag

I wish this was true.

In Spain recently something in my bag tripped the Xray alarm. I had to unpack my bag and take "something metal" out for inspection. It turned out it was an empty food packaging with a shiny foil bit on the side. Over all, it's not so big a deal, but they certainly cared about it.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a worldwide thing. EU airport security is even stricter and they're not going to let go now.

The airport security in Europe and South America is not even close to how it is in USA.

My sample size is two - one departing flight each from LHR and DUB - but they were way less painful experiences than any airport I've flown out of in the US.
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