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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#41

Post by thereisnospork »

pxx wrote: post #26
mattwad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

>If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

Ya its called a ticket, which are typically received in exchange for money. Should airlines also charge a disembarking fee? pay up or don't get off the plane? Seems like that's more money left on the table, captive audience and all.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#42

Post by [deleted] »

JusticeJuice wrote: post #32

I spent $600 on a flight from London, to San Diego. There's a stopover in New York - but the connecting flight is delayed for six hours. At this point it's 10pm, but they get a plane, we board, we're actually taxing to the runway... and then the flight is canceled. Turns out it would arrive too late in San Diego for noise regulation. We all get off, I get another flight with a different company next thing in the morn…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#43

Post by 988747 »

invisible wrote: post #14
vxNsr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look more closely that’s not the case. If they pay the refunds, they get to subtract a portion of that from the fine. Dan has more detail and isn’t paywalled: https://www.dansdeals.com/more/news/airline-news/dot-issues-...

Weird -- why not make the fine $604 million (or whatever they truly should owe in refunds) and allow all but, say, 4 million to be reduced?

That would create a weird dynamic: is it more beneficial to the airline to issue refunds to passengers, or is it better to give money directly to the DOT, which, as most government institutions, is probably underfunded and will appreciate the "donation"? Cost for the airline is the same if both cases, but indirectly funding DOT might win you some friends there :)

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#44

Post by jrockway »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #28
ceejayoz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you not get your money back from an airline-initiated cancellation? I get giving up on delay compensation - I'm currently fighting travel insurance on an 18 hour delay that incured a hotel stay - but "we canceled your flight, but we're keeping your money" seems like a scenario where the airline clearly has no leg to stand on. Hell, do a credit card chargeback.

We had flights cancelled — they gave us a "voucher", not our money back. The voucher apparently expires so we had to use it or lose it. Also, the voucher was only good for the ticketed passengers it affected, so we could not use it for one of our daughters, for example. Also, when we did try to use it we were told it was not valid for many of the seats/tickets we were trying to book. Where it was valid: upgraded (bus…

I think you just play the call to complain game there. They have to give you like for like; if you bought the flight with a voucher that expires, sure, refund it with a voucher that expires. But if you bought with cash, they should give you cash back.

In my experience (at 800k lifetime miles at this point), the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you're not happy with something, call to complain.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#45

Post by MichaelCollins »

phone8675309 wrote: post #36
ch4s3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> threatening you with federal charges and huge fines if you "verbally abuse" the TSA workers It's probably unconstitutional, but no one has tested it in court yet as far as I'm aware.

I don't think anyone wants to be detained by the TSA and put on the no-fly list to call a TSA agent a fascist

I expect they would detain you, force you to miss your flight, but not actually fine you. Without actually charging you with anything despite the threats, they avoid having their bullshit rule challenged in court.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#46

Post by thepasswordis »

I can't read this paywalled NyTimes article. Where does this $7M fine go?

I propose the following: when fines like this are levied against an airline, the airline has to pay out the full $7M figure to one individual who was wronged, and that person is chosen via lottery.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#47

Post by cnelsenmilt »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
MichaelCollins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

People objected to the TSA, but the political climate in 2002 was too much in favor of it.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#48

Post by m-ee »

JusticeJuice wrote: post #32

I spent $600 on a flight from London, to San Diego. There's a stopover in New York - but the connecting flight is delayed for six hours. At this point it's 10pm, but they get a plane, we board, we're actually taxing to the runway... and then the flight is canceled. Turns out it would arrive too late in San Diego for noise regulation. We all get off, I get another flight with a different company next thing in the morn…

Flew BCN to SFO with a stopover in Philly. Short ~10 min delay on the tarmac rerouting around a storm in the midwest. Flight is abruptly cancelled, the combination of the delay and the very slightly longer route caused the pilots to time out. AA refused a refund because they classified it as weather and they have no responsibility for the fact that their pilots had 20 minutes of buffer in how long they were allowed to fly, and no other pilots were available.

My credit card comes with insurance for this, but I've been going back and forth with Visa's process for this since July and still haven't gotten reimbursed.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#49

Post by 1024core »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #20
kaycebasques wrote: post #15

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

> Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected?

Same with the Customs and Immigration Services (the passport checkers) at SFO. I have seen lines going out to the walkway (leading into the big room). I can't even imagine traveling with a couple of little children; there's no restroom in that big hall.

By law, these people get full passenger manifests, arrival times, etc. before the flight even lands. They know, down to the passenger, everyone's status, nationality, etc.

AND STILL THEY ARE OFTEN SHORTHANDED!

This is the reception we give to visitors to the country. SMH...

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#50

Post by darksaints »

JusticeJuice wrote: post #32

I spent $600 on a flight from London, to San Diego. There's a stopover in New York - but the connecting flight is delayed for six hours. At this point it's 10pm, but they get a plane, we board, we're actually taxing to the runway... and then the flight is canceled. Turns out it would arrive too late in San Diego for noise regulation. We all get off, I get another flight with a different company next thing in the morn…

"My internal valuation for the London to NY leg is $0.01, and NY to San Diego is $9999.99, which coincidentally is the damages limit for small claims court. Now let's be reasonable and work this out without a judge".
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