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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

21–30 of 242 posts

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it does say that the penalties will ratchet up if the airlines don't correct their behavior.

I'll believe it when I see it. Threatening to take a kid's toy away when they know you won't cause you never do doesn't teach a good lesson.

Has the US threatened to ratchet up fines in the past and not done so?

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#22
post #17

What a bargain for the airlines. A 1% penalty and they probably saved at least 5% in financing costs.

When people see small fines like this, they assume it’s a slap on the wrist. And it is. Because the message is loud and clear: don’t make us pay attention to you and fix your shit.

Counting to three only works if you're willing and able to do whatever the thing is you said you would do to the child when they are misbehaving.

I think it's less that people see a slap on the wrist, and more that people see the systemic, wholesale capture and gutting of regulatory bodies and are not surprised that nothing substantive happens in this kind of case.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#23

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

Southwest also advertises many more flights than it plans to actually fly. Like if there's no penalty for a less than 2 hour adjustment, why not advertise flights every hour, and then regroup people day of? Or send them to Oakland instead of San Francisco, day of?

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#24

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

I used to work in the same building as the TSA. They were some of the rudest people I have ever been around. They would smoke in the stairwells and literally anywhere other than the smoking areas.

They have the same problem as BMVs, they have literally no incentive to improve. There is no competition.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#25

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

> threatening you with federal charges and huge fines if you "verbally abuse" the TSA workers

It's probably unconstitutional, but no one has tested it in court yet as far as I'm aware.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#26
post #16

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table.

If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#28

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

Why would you not get your money back from an airline-initiated cancellation? I get giving up on delay compensation - I'm currently fighting travel insurance on an 18 hour delay that incured a hotel stay - but "we canceled your flight, but we're keeping your money" seems like a scenario where the airline clearly has no leg to stand on. Hell, do a credit card chargeback.

We had flights cancelled — they gave us a "voucher", not our money back.

The voucher apparently expires so we had to use it or lose it.

Also, the voucher was only good for the ticketed passengers it affected, so we could not use it for one of our daughters, for example.

Also, when we did try to use it we were told it was not valid for many of the seats/tickets we were trying to book. Where it was valid: upgraded (business class or first class) flights, flights with several layovers....

Such bullshit.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#29

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

Why would you not get your money back from an airline-initiated cancellation? I get giving up on delay compensation - I'm currently fighting travel insurance on an 18 hour delay that incured a hotel stay - but "we canceled your flight, but we're keeping your money" seems like a scenario where the airline clearly has no leg to stand on. Hell, do a credit card chargeback.

If it was the cheap fare, likely around ~$100 for Spirit, then for a lot of folks it might not be worth fighting with customer service for the money.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#30
If I may comment on the abstract issue here... the experience of flying (US domestic) is a boiling frog situation. Flying used to be fun. 9-11 greatly accelerated the problems, but it had already been getting worse for decades as its popularity grew. Especially because I have long intervals when I don't fly, I absolutely dread the answer to my question, "What new, horrible treatment / experience / standards / fees / abuse will I be learning about this time?" Between the security, checking in, leg room, just everything. The airline's behavior from the post is just an example.
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