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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#351

Post by phtrivier »

scop wrote: post #326
phtrivier wrote: post #311

Just so we now for next time: what is the proper way to express concerns about _this_ kind of things with enough nuance and moderation so as not to be automatically considered an anti-scientist tin foil hat ? What is the scientifically acceptable way to phrase "I'm not concerned about BigPharma planting 5G chips in my future children's eyeballs to turn them into communist ; but I'm very concerned about blind spots du…

Eric Weinstein had a great segment on his Portal podcast about this very thing. I can't recall the interview (maybe with Balaji?), but if it comes to me I'll comment it. The gist was that he was talking about Covid and he observed that the guest had to spend an inordinate amount of time saying what he was not saying, to the point of being absurd. He had to constantly preface his comments with a long series of stateme…

> How can you have a conversation if so much time is spent not saying things?

Slowly, in carefully written form reviewed by people with the right training.

Unfortunately, in the middle of an emergency with the bodies of voting-aged people piling up... Not at all.

(Although, I guess not going to the other extreme of "having this conversation in bits of 140 characters among strangers with advertisers at each corner" did not help much.)

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#352

Post by robomartin »

elevenoh wrote: post #117
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

>We are still not anti-vax at all deciding not to get a covid-19 mrna vaccine != anti-vax

> deciding not to get a covid-19 mrna vaccine != anti-vax

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. I just wanted to make it clear that, despite this incident, we have not changed our position with regards to vaccines of any kind. That's not to say we might exercise more caution in the future.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#353

Post by [deleted] »

scifibestfi wrote: post #64
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#354

Post by thrwy_918 »

robomartin wrote: post #321
throwaway09223 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

>A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. No, that's not the case at all. We had to negotiate with the hospital and settled for this amount. The ACA covered none of it or a very small portion. I don't remember the actual bill, my wife dealt with all of it (she is a doctor and knows how to discuss such things with hospital…

> The ACA covered none of it or a very small portion

The ACA is not an insurance plan, so I assume you are using "ACA" as shorthand for "ACA-compliant insurance coverage".

It is simply not plausible that an ACA-compliant plan would wholesale "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis, absent extremely niche and bizarre circumstances.

Given that you don't seem very familiar with the specifics, I have to assume that your information is either missing some very important details, or incorrect.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#355

Post by yonaguska »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #316
Grim-444 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu shots also use a vaccine mechanism that's been known/used for decades and is not a first of its kind in history mRNA treatment. I feel like this difference would lead towards one requiring more testing than the other, at least in a rational society. [Edit] For anyone that wants to downvote this, please explain what I said that was untrue. Flu shots in the US have never been mRNA based. Covid shots in the US are m…

I didn't downvote you but if the 12 billion or so COVID vaccine doses issued world wide don't convince you that the vaccine is statistically safe, at least as safe as something as common as paracetamol or aspirin, then what amount of testing would convince you?

It doesn't convince me because I do not know anyone personally that has had an adverse reaction to aspirin, that didn't also overdose on it. Meanwhile, I know several people that have had adverse reactions to the vaccine ranging from issues with periods, to heart problems, to death.

No one is seriously tracking the adverse reactions, we've handed that off to the companies that produced the vaccines. And doctors are afraid to or don't care to raise concerns either. The vaccines are as statistically safe for me as COVID is for my age and health profile. And the vaccine makes no guarantee that I won't still catch COVID. Why would I double my risk when I've caught COVID, and it was nothing for me.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#356

Post by puffoflogic »

Why bother with expensive research when the HN comment section has it all figured out? The vaccines don't cause myocarditis, and if they do then it's not as bad as what COVID causes, and if it is well COVID also causes it anyways so who cares, and if it doesn't then at least the vaccines stop transmission, and if they don't then at least they save your life, and if they don't then at least we believe The Science!

Just a waste of money. The Science is settled.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#358

Post by [deleted] »

robomartin wrote: post #335
scifibestfi wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

> You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?! I am being as honest as I can be with regards to our feelings on this. I can't say we are angry about that incident at all. I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot. Frankly, I don't even remember if…

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#359

Post by sokoloff »

phtrivier wrote: post #331
sokoloff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having some uncertainty around novel things seems reasonable. We were all uncertain around COVID and around new vaccines using a novel mechanism. People balanced those uncertainties differently. I took the course of asking people I generally trusted for their opinion and concluded that taking the vaccines (3 for me so far, plus a bout of naturally-acquired resistance via infection) was indicated. There were other doc…

Except when the only thing that can inform a good decision is _time_ ; and when you can ask every trustworthy people you know, and they will simply not have a clue _yet_, because no one does and we're in the middle of the fog of war. But I suppose we all preferred pretending we knew _somethings_. How about we get some empathy for the people who just ended up on the many bad sides of the many bets ?

I'm not sure where the lack of empathy is above. I have/wrote about empathy for people whose doctors gave them advice that when followed will turn out, in retrospect, to be wrong. Maybe that will be mine; maybe that will be the others.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#360

Post by gravelc »

no_butterscotch wrote: post #124
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

Circumstances change - super super glad I got my booster.

When I got it, I was a healthy, fit person without any of the comorbidities that go along with COVID.

Last week I had a mountain biking accident and broke half my ribs and punctured a lung. Then I got COVID in hospital. Fortunately it was quite mild, and even that was a bit of a nightmare as coughing was hell and I had quite low blood oxygen.

Given the risks of a booster are so low (though non-zero) and the risk that your health can change before you manage to contract COVID, it seems like the smart proposition to me to get the booster.

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