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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#271

Post by hitpointdrew »

xracy wrote: post #164
spfzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like, in the absence of assurance of long-term safety, you would recommend the vaccine for at-risk groups only. It's known now that the risk to young people (under 19) is minimal: IFR < 3/1,000,000. And that was during the much more dangerous early strain of Covid-19, not the ones circulating now. Yet here we are in 2022 with a recommendation from the CDC to vaccinate ages 5 and up, regardless of health…

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

You are ignoring the parents that lost children due to the vaccine, or now have children with ongoing medical issues.

Children are not dying from covid. So there is no need to vaccinate them unless they are in a high risk category.

The NY Times reported "For children without a serious medical condition, the danger of severe Covid is so low as to be difficult to quantify."

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#272

Post by Grim-444 »

walterbell wrote: post #235
jjcon wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu shots don't require human trials either, should covid be all that different (genuine question) if so why?

Flu shots were not mandated for work, study or travel.

Flu shots also use a vaccine mechanism that's been known/used for decades and is not a first of its kind in history mRNA treatment. I feel like this difference would lead towards one requiring more testing than the other, at least in a rational society.

[Edit] For anyone that wants to downvote this, please explain what I said that was untrue. Flu shots in the US have never been mRNA based. Covid shots in the US are mRNA based. Before covid, there was never at any point in history an mRNA based vaccine rolled out to the public.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#273

Post by ifyoubuildit »

floor2 wrote: post #199
sfusato wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of would-do-it-again testimonials from a hospital bed caused by a vaccine injury/side effect. There's a famous Mark Twain quote that comes to mind.

Making the statistically best choice is still the best choice even if you get an undesired outcome. Good poker players can lose all their chips at the table to an unlucky draw and walk away knowing that they made the right play and that they'd do it again, even if they got unlucky on the river card. Good basketball coaches will still draw up plays to get the ball into the hands of their best shooter at the end of the…

Except the issue is how certain we are of these percentages. In poker, the win rate of AA against 72 heads up is well known.

In reality, we don't have that. We get whatever ideas have the largest marketing budget behind them, and we just have to trust them. It's more like "nobody gets fired for buying IBM (or pick your favorite pundit)" than running a poker scenario through a solver. And that's fine, I don't think you can expect much more than that out of people.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#274

Post by chasd00 »

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

my sister ended up with endocarditis and nearly died. She went from "i feel bad, i should go to the doctor" to emergency heart valve replacement surgery in about 8 days.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#275

Post by sfusato »

jjcon wrote: post #250
sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

And yet despite that these countries have much much higher rates of booster vaccination than the USA does (not to mention there are dozens of other countries not listed in your comment with similar policies to the USA). I think this has more to do with how the health agencies in these countries choose to communicate than anything else; that is I don't think the wording and nuance of all recommendations can be directl…

Is that counting the 1st booster? These policy changes came after the 1st booster.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#276

Post by AnthonBerg »

chedca21 wrote: post #98
nradov wrote: post #56

One mouse study found that vaccine injection without aspiration did significantly increase the risk of adverse cardiac events such as myocarditis. That research hasn't been reproduced in humans but this area deserves further investigation. As per CDC guidelines, US healthcare providers don't routinely aspirate prior to intramuscular injection. https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciab941 https://doi.org/10.1007/s43440-022-003…

And young male athletes with the greatest development of blood supply in the deltoid represent the most common demographic affected by acute cardiovascular injury post vaccine. Coincidence? The vaccines were not built to be aspirated, once the plunger is up they can not be reset. It represents a fundamental lapse in standard harm reduction. Also "wait 15 mins to see if emergency care is needed" could well have been r…

I have asked for aspiration when I was vaccinated, all four times. I’ve had Pfizer and Moderna. It was no problem.

There exist syringes which the injection cannot be aspirated with, but those weren’t used when I was being vaccinated.

—

Strong agreement on the concern about deltoid vasculature.

(I have direct, lived experience with someone at risk of death from a substance going into a capillary which was supposed to stay under the skin on injection. It happens. It’s real. Some doctors will claim it’s “impossible”, which is obviously false when you look into it. The datasheet that came with the injector needles even state that they’re “over 99.5 accurate in delivering a subcutaneous injection”. I forget the exact phrasing. It means that statistically, 1 in 200 injections tends to go into a capillary.)

—

Also, it’s interesting to look into the reasons why aspiration was removed from standard practice. In a nutshell, it’s because of two things:

1: Some syringes exist which cannot be aspirated with.

2: Aspiration can be painful for infants and is tricky to perform because they are small and they struggle.

These are the reasons why aspiration was essentially removed from clinical practice. Really. Those are the reasons. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s obviously harmful that aspiration was stopped.

The papers the grandparent post links to are good.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#277

Post by Grim-444 »

peterbell_nyc wrote: post #263
eftychis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People I know are getting COVID in the Bay Area -- multiple weeks sick (I can count at least 6 -- in the moment -- for the span of middle of October until now). We are still in the pandemic. The problem is it has to stop everywhere for us to get complacent. Especially, given that everyone wants to travel -- and travel abroad. Pandemic is here. Nothing is over. We are distracted with other things. Things are "good" in…

Same here. I live just north of NYC and it seems like pretty much everyone is getting covid. Luckily, mortality attributed to covid is continuing to decrease suggesting it's becoming less of an issue (in terms of deaths), but even with ~320 deaths a day, we're still looking at over 100k dying in the US every year of covid - despite the fact that a lot of the most vulnerable already died. I think we just have a new no…

Weren't we already in that same situation every year/decade prior to covid when between 20,000 and 50,000 would die from the flu each year?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_influenza_statis...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#278

Post by jjcon »

sfusato wrote: post #275
jjcon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet despite that these countries have much much higher rates of booster vaccination than the USA does (not to mention there are dozens of other countries not listed in your comment with similar policies to the USA). I think this has more to do with how the health agencies in these countries choose to communicate than anything else; that is I don't think the wording and nuance of all recommendations can be directl…

Is that counting the 1st booster? These policy changes came after the 1st booster.

> Is that counting the 1st booster? These policy changes came after the 1st booster.

Yes it is counting any booster after primary 2 doses - which policy changes specifically? Most of these countries have been relatively consistent in their approach to boosters.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#279

Post by veeti »

jjcon wrote: post #250
sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

And yet despite that these countries have much much higher rates of booster vaccination than the USA does (not to mention there are dozens of other countries not listed in your comment with similar policies to the USA). I think this has more to do with how the health agencies in these countries choose to communicate than anything else; that is I don't think the wording and nuance of all recommendations can be directl…

These numbers are wrong for Finland. Source: https://yle.fi/news/3-11863045

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#280

Post by ivraatiems »

linuxftw wrote: post #262
ivraatiems wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gene therapy drugs The use of this term to describe an mRNA vaccine suggests you do not understand how these vaccines work whatsoever. I am not surprised you didn't understand the FDA's report given that you don't understand how the vaccines work at all.

A vaccine requires an antigen. There's no antigen in the mRNA or Adeno-vector vaccines. I'm not willing to pretend that these new medical products are in any way similar to the previous technology. Gene therapy accurately describes the drug's effect. It injects instructions into your cells to replicate a protein, that's gene therapy. In this case, rather than treating some disease, it's designed to provoke an immune…

> "A vaccine requires an antigen. There's no antigen in the mRNA or Adeno-vector vaccines."

That's not what a vaccine is. Vaccines do not "require" an antigen, they "act as" an antigen. Whether they include the antigen directly or a mechanism for producing it doesn't matter. Live-virus vaccines are just a more imprecise version of the technology that powers mRNA vaccines. They're doing the same thing, but more sloppily.

> It injects instructions into your cells to replicate a protein, that's gene therapy.

Again, you don't understand the term. "Gene therapy" involves actually changing the DNA housed in the nucleus in your cells. mRNA vaccines can't do that.

This is also how every virus, including COVID works. "Injected into cells" is imprecise terminology that makes it sound like it's doing something novel that will persist in your cell after the mRNA decays. That isn't true. The mRNA doesn't become part of your DNA. It eventually decays and becomes useless. Until then, mechanisms within the cell use it to produce the protein - one of the same proteins COVID produces when you are sick with it.

If you are scared of this mechanism of action, you should be downright terrified of ever getting a viral infection, or any vaccine at all, or really just living in the world. Real viruses do the exact same thing, except some of them (like retroviruses) also alter your DNA. The human genome is littered with the genes for viruses that wormed their way in over time.

mRNA vaccines are just doing the same thing the virus already does, but in a more controlled, less dangerous way, and obviously without viral replication in the host.

But, again, the whole point of my original comment is that none of this will matter to you, most likely. I suspect you will keep believing false things about these vaccines which justify your position that you don't want to take them. Hopefully this information makes some difference to someone else.

Anyway, I think this is enough back-and-forth with you; between this and the "Marxist-level thinking" comment it's pretty clear there's nothing to gain by this anymore.

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