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Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

businessinsider.com

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Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#141

Post by autotune »

user_7832 wrote: post #119
autotune wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line of thought I am at least trying to present here is that we should have been talking about stories like this and making them well known that have been happening throughout the industry well before hitting MANGA companies.

I fully agree with that. Though I probably misunderstood the way you were putting it.

All good! I have been trying to better gather my thoughts on this in the face of... ongoing critique... so it is on me for not presenting it better in the first place. I blame it on being 5:30 AM in the morning here and not having had any coffee yet.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#142

Post by ako »

lzooz wrote: post #135
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

Quoted post unavailable.

But without a job he maybe forced to move back.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#143

Post by mcherm »

vidarh wrote: post #136
lynx23 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you advocate that employees from abroad should have some sort of default lay-off protection? Why do you think this is fair?

Most developed countries have consultation requirements and notice period requirements for layoffs that would have made this either a non-issue or at least significantly less of a problem. The US (EDIT: given this was in Canada, clearly the US isn't as extreme an outlier as I thought, overall point still stands for the US and Canada) is a pretty extreme outlier in how it allows employers to deal with redundancies, be…

This occurred in Canada, not the US.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#144

Post by jve »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #9

This happens a lot in my country. Eastern Europeans on temporary contracts and company housing (and we use the word house very liberally it is usually just a bed) end up on the streets when fired. They don't get help from the government because no passport. The socialist welfare state cannot be extended to foreigners or it would run out of € and the temp agencies take no responsibility.

Hello from Eastern Europe. We must possess passport/id card if at least 15 yrs old whether travelling or not. So staying at some EU country without passport I suspect is illegal, let alone who brings such people to work? Shady.

But people who officially work abroad... yeah, not the best conditions for many. As usual, people think grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#145

Post by hooby »

mschuster91 wrote: post #63
hooby wrote: post #58

Imho the real question here is, why is it that Meta keeps hiring right right until they do large layoff rounds? The kind of issue that requires large layoff rounds is not something that just materializes overnight, out of the blue. So why does their management - which should be able to read the writing on the wall, since that's part of their job - not issue a strict hiring freeze (in addition to other measures taken…

> So why does their management - which should be able to read the writing on the wall, since that's part of their job - not issue a strict hiring freeze (in addition to other measures taken to try and avoid/reduce the impeding layoffs). Hiring freezes are an internally visible sign (which may lead to critical people jumping ship at the wrong time or uncontrolled ship-on-fire quittings that end up larger than the orig…

So, basically a Perverse Incentive [0] - a systemic problem.

But the firings are externally visible as well - and it's also externally visible whether the firings occurred with or without a hiring freeze in place beforehand. And whether the number of people fired is larger - or smaller is visible as well (and after a hiring freeze and counter-measures it's always gonna be somewhat smaller).

And one of those two options signals greater unpredictability and volatility then the other - which to investors means higher risk, right?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#146

Post by fredgrott »

mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

I think I speak for the whole HN community in that it's not the code or the visual design; it's instead can we find the value of the community and re-tell and value those community values that makes startup people successful.

Meta firing people is not the problem in of itself, but the methods used to do it is somewhat destroying the impression that they value what they have hoisted up to everyone; namely the degree of connectiveness and that community of connectiveness.

A better way would be for Mark Z to sell some of his stock holdings and offer dis-engagement bonuses for people to leave.

This is also highlights the incentives bias you have to avoid, in this case the ads-revenue incentive bias.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#147

Post by ClumsyPilot »

mk89 wrote: post #44

I don't understand. That's unfortunately how it is, sadly enough. Should they have fired another person instead just because of location? I believe they should have not given the GO at all to the hiring manager, but hey... these CEOs nowadays like to take full responsibility accountability blabla-ility for their actions :) Some years ago I worked at a company that had to fire 3 people. They picked one of the guys tha…

"don't understand. That's unfortunately how it is, sadly enough. Should they have fired another person instead just because of location"

I see this as their fuckup, the job for a new hire should exist for at least 6 months, and if that means they cant fire and one and have to eat the loss, thats their problem.

Decisions have consequences, except for conpanies it seems.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#148

Post by goodpoint »

mrtksn wrote: post #121
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

IMHO, the libertarian trends of thought are pushing people to think everyone as a trader and abolishment of professions. From that perspective, business is business and the employee should have striken a better deal but from a professionals perspective they are not businessmen - they are professionals and the business is handled by someone else and they join a team where they get compensated for their time(they don't…

We invented regulated employment and worker protections for good reasons.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#149

Post by callmeal »

danmur wrote: post #100
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

Responsible companies will make these situations right even where the law doesn't specifically require it. Hope that's what will happen.

Well, I'm not sure you can put "responsible company" and "facebook/meta" in the same sentence.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#150

Post by Msurrow »

kypro wrote: post #125
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

I do agree, but I guess I'm not sure what the solution is here? Large layoffs in large orgs are generally done at a team level rather than an individual level. So presumably this individual's entire team no longer exists. So out of respect for them relocating do you then try to reposition them in the company somehow? And what about all the people who didn't relocate but may have recently left stable job for an opport…

The solution is right there in OPs post: “give them three months on the books to find somewhere else that don't count against their visa. It will give them a chance to get settled and go on interviews.”

Thats it. HR knows who is working on visa. Inform them of the situation, give them 3 months, take away all their accesses and let them spend the 3 months to look for a new job. Meta makes a bazillion USD pr year. Even if they had to pay 1000 workers on visa for 3 months it wont make a dent in their profits.

For the employee that just relocated, on the other hand, this makes all the difference in the world.

Corporate greed is disgusting when its put above Human decency like this.

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