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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#141

Post by skrebbel »

JohnBooty wrote: post #84
skrebbel wrote: post #72

This Marty person seems like a full on psychopath. I always wonder with stories like these how the lawyers feel after a day’s work. Like, “hi daddy, how was work?” - “oh it was fantastic, we strong armed an independent musician into getting screwed over by our client, an ambitious psychopath!” -hugs-

I blame everything but the lawyers. A functional and just legal system depends on both parties having effective legal representation. Our current system falls far short of that ideal but I never feel that lawyers are the issue. It's the system itself, as well as the Zenimaxes and Martys of the world, that I blame.

Sure, but how are those stalling tactics and threat-laden scare letters “effective legal representation” and not just bullying the little guy?

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#142

Post by mrtranscendence »

suremarc wrote: post #126
adamrezich wrote: post #70

it was always obvious that DOOM Eternal had a pretty troubled development, what with all the delays, the apparent focus on the novel multiplayer mode that nobody ended up really liking at all, the promised-after-release Dark Souls-style "invasions" system that never ended up materializing, and the general unfocused nature of the final product compared to its predecessor. but getting a peek behind the scenes here is r…

DOOM 2016 got by on its freshness and its tone. The combat mechanics in DOOM Eternal, while having some divisive elements, really pushed the envelope for the series and for FPS games in general. But that was thanks to Hugo Martin, not Marty Stratton.

Agreed. I’m sad to see all the negative comments about Eternal here, because in my view it’s one of the best gaming experiences of the last few years.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#143

Post by barbariangrunge »

staindk wrote: post #82

Wow I vaguely remember that reddit thread and I think I felt a bit confused about it. Seemed like such an OTT reaction to something that should be handled internally - and then for a public statement you would keep it short, sweet and indirect (i.e. 2 paragraphs where you don't blame anyone except maybe yourself and some section of the company). Very glad Mick made this thorough post.

Remember all the toxic anti-mick comments in that thread, saying it was all micks fault? The post really made people turn on him

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#144

Post by barbariangrunge »

agentwiggles wrote: post #118
musha68k wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The soundtrack for Eternal was the only thing that felt special about this sequel IMO. Doom 2016 was and is amazing though, instant classic including the congenial soundtrack. I’m even less excited about any further sequel now. Too bad John Carmack didn’t want to put up more with the business side of things. Zenimax are slowly becoming the worst of all the gravedigger big gaming companies.

I liked Eternal, I know that a lot of people felt the new mechanics were too much of a departure from 2016, and I'm sympathetic to that, but I had a hell of fun time beating the game on Nightmare. It turns it into something like Hotline Miami, where there's a room full of guys who can kill you almost immediately, so you wind up playing the encounter over and over until you have the perfect path of devastation through…

They added too many mechanical things to fiddle with and it drowned out the positional combat aspect. It felt like playing starcraft in the mid to late game

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#145

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

s_dev wrote: post #140
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #134

At the end of the day, this is a bog-standard contract dispute over creative differences, and now these guys have to hash it out in the court of public opinion, because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink? Good grief. "Social" media is killing society.

>because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink? I would compare Mick Gordon's contribution to the Doom game here to that of Howard Shore in Lord of the Rings. The experience is fundamentally limited without the music.

But that wasn't the problem, was it? They got "the music."

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#147

Post by Comevius »

runevault wrote: post #66

That open letter from Marty always felt fishy to me, because everything I ever saw about Mick made him feel like someone who is simply enthusiastic about music and all the stuff he claimed smelled wrong. I ended up writing it off as "Maybe he's just better at a public persona than I figured," and was sad but moved on. But now? Oof I wonder what Bethesda/Zenimax/MS does about this, because the look is NOT good for Mar…

I knew Marty's open letter was bullshit back then when I first read it since the game was originally set to release in 2019, and here he was talking about not having Mick under contract for the OST in January 2020. It was also suspicious that he said that they didn't have the source material for the game music after that contract has ended. That would be such a tremendous oversight, the studio not owning all the material for their game.

It all makes sense after reading Mick's statement. Chad was tasked with the OST for the original release date back in August 2019, and he was supposed to use the game music, including the parts that ended up being rejected for the game. This is why Mick was ignored for months when asking about the OST. They only went back to him in March 2020 when it was apparent that the studio is not up to the task.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#149

Post by zlsa »

driverdan wrote: post #104
Pet_Ant wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the mod was personally threatened with a lawsuit could you blame him? I think that is a very likely possibility…

They could have told them to shove it. They had nothing to bring a lawsuit about.

I used to be an active moderator of a fairly popular community. At one point, we were requested by a US TLA[0] to remove a post that they believed contained information that should not have been made public. We complied, obviously.

We then got numerous people complaining that we, a bunch of unpaid moderators, didn't try to fight back. I recall one person saying we were "too chicken" to stand up for ourselves against a major US government agency.

If we had stood up for ourselves, the agency would have gone straight to reddit and filed a DMCA (as would be entirely within their right to do in that case), and reddit, inc. would instantly have removed the content (as hosting providers nearly always do, even if there's no grounds for a DMCA takedown[1].) Why are unpaid moderators held to a higher standard than the website itself?

[0]: "three-letter agency"

[1]: yes, this is wrong, but it's how it usually goes when false DMCAs are filed.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#150

Post by filoleg »

musha68k wrote: post #94
WorldMaker wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zenimax became a part of Microsoft soon after Doom Eternal. Don't know if the management changes after that help or not.

Wow, we do live in a strange reality at this point. Masters of Doom clearly a distant past.

I am glad you mentioned Masters of Doom. I've read it on the bus commute during my internship at Microsoft back in college ~6-7 years ago, and I cannot recommend this book enough.

I didn't want to work in gamedev at the time (due to being fairly familiar with how awful working in that industry was), and I still don't. Neither do I have a strong emotional attachment to the original DOOM, I was way too young to appreciate it back when it was released, and I didn't live in a country where it was a cultural hit. I still have no interest or fascination with working in gamedev industry now.

However, that book was something else, and it rocked my world. It is about as strong of a book rec as I can give. Both Carmack and Romero created something very special there, and it is fascinating as hell to read it. Especially since Carmack and his current endeavors are still very relevant to the world of today.

P.S. The last sentence wasn't meant to be a dig at Romero at all. I just don't see him being mentioned in the news much anymore, especially compared to Carmack, and I honestly have no idea what he is up to. But that doesn't diminish his contribution to the story of DOOM and beyond at all.

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