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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#61

Post by loupol »

This is a really long read. If you want a summary the Factual rebuttal at the end and the TL;DR are good.

Really damning account regarding Id's management and Marty Stratton in particular, and it seems like he's got a rather thorough paper trail to back it up. The worst I feel is him not being paid for half the music used in game that he produced and then discredited by lies on social media, and those are things he can clearly prove with the payments that were made and legal contracts he signed.

An actual contractor horror story, this will probably make future composers be very careful when signing anything with Id Software as long as management remains the same there.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#62

Post by agentultra »

What a story. I've had to take action against bad clients before when I was working as a consultant. Never a fun process.

Mick's work on the soundtrack is such a huge component of what made these games great. His dedication to the final product and the fans is admirable. I hope he doesn't have to go through something like this again. The stress alone is not worth it.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#63

Post by x55j33 »

dspillett wrote: post #36
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #2

Horror stories like this are the main reason I only ever bill by the hour and invoice biweekly. Like, sure, I'll change things to meet requirements but I'm not going to work for free or go without pay for months. It's also much easier to fire bad clients or to stop working when an invoice goes unpaid for too long. The only downside to this approach is when salaried subordinates don't understand this dynamic and rack…

> Horror stories like this are the main reason I only ever bill by the hour and invoice biweekly. This sort of thing is why I've always kept a salaried position. I could make more, perhaps have more varied & interesting work, and maybe gain other flexibility, if I switched to contracting, but few people extolling these benefits to me ever mention the flip side when things aren't perfect – I'm more than happy to make…

> Work starts late because of no fault of mine

Yes, but apparently in Mick's case your name is on the product, and your reputation gets ruined if you don't play ball. A big software company can pay lawyers much longer than you can keep food on the table without pay.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#65

Post by [deleted] »

somuchfordonor wrote: post #30
cyberpunk wrote: post #27

I had a real feeling Mick got the shaft over this one. A real shame, his OST would have been absolutely badass. What a waste of time for everyone involved, they certainly won't find anyone better for scoring the next ID games. I hope he lands on his feet, whatever he does next.

This forum is full of people with amnesia over how many id Tech people are assholes.

[deleted]

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#66

Post by runevault »

That open letter from Marty always felt fishy to me, because everything I ever saw about Mick made him feel like someone who is simply enthusiastic about music and all the stuff he claimed smelled wrong. I ended up writing it off as "Maybe he's just better at a public persona than I figured," and was sad but moved on. But now? Oof I wonder what Bethesda/Zenimax/MS does about this, because the look is NOT good for Marty, and Mick seems to have the receipts to back it up.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#67

Post by JohnBooty »

Chris2048 wrote: post #24
stryan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-OST it sounds like he kept interacting in hopes that they would pay him on time. For the OST, I suppose a combination of professional decency and the fact that his name was already attached to the release kept him going. Mick Gordon's been a household name thanks to his legendary DOOM(2016) soundtrack, so I'm not surprised he was trying to keep it up. A musician can really live or die by their name recognition an…

> the fact that his name was already attached couldn't he have sued on the basis his name was attached to it?

I'm not a lawyer, but this is a difficult road. You can't sue merely because somebody wrote mean or untrue things.

You have to prove that they're untrue and that they caused you harm.

In Mick's case, that harm would presumably take the form of lost income in form of work he didn't receive from other companies due to Marty's false claims. That's difficult (read: expensive) to prove in court.

Also, as others have noted, suing iD/Zenimax would also be some level of professional suicide. There are way more talented arts than there are paying artist gigs. That means game companies have hundreds or thousands of artists to choose from, and they consciously or subconsciously filter out the "risky" ones.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#68

Post by thefz »

In case we need another example to why Reddit moderation needs... moderation:

Attempting to remove the Reddit post myself

I’d had enough. I grew tired of having the respect I afforded Marty, and his employer, with attempts to resolve the dispute privately, get turned into a giant waste of time, effort and money. The Reddit post had been up for 15 months and attempts to resolve the dispute with Marty had gotten me nowhere. With my patience stretched to the absolute limit, I decided to take steps to remove the Reddit post myself.

Reddit Moderator: I reached out to one of the r/DOOM moderators. We made contact and arranged a call via Discord.

The moderator introduced himself and spoke about his love for the DOOM franchise and its fanbase. Along with the r/DOOM subreddit, he told me he also moderated the official DOOM Discord server.

I told him how Marty’s Reddit post had affected me deeply, both professionally and personally. It was a source of ongoing stress and harm, and I asked if he’d consider removing it.

Much to my relief, he instantly took it down.

But within 12 hours, the post was reinstated. The moderator blocked me on Discord and didn’t reply to my emails.

A few days later, Marty’s lawyers contacted me and said removing the Reddit post had greatly offended him. He was furious and made it clear in the strongest terms that an amicable resolution would be impossible.

I just read some of the article and that's horrible behavior from ID.

You have my support, Mick.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#69

Post by runevault »

agentwiggles wrote: post #4

This is really disappointing to read. Mick's soundtrack was a huge part of making DOOM 2016 and Eternal such great experiences. His talk at GDC where he goes into some of the process of creating the soundtrack is fantastic, so much fun to see the creativity he brought to the game's music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FNBMZsqrY The next DOOM will be a little less DOOMy without him.

His sheer enthusiasm in this video is incredible. Also the glee when he adds 666 to the music lol (or maybe it was a pentagram, or both? Been a while since I watched).

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#70

Post by adamrezich »

it was always obvious that DOOM Eternal had a pretty troubled development, what with all the delays, the apparent focus on the novel multiplayer mode that nobody ended up really liking at all, the promised-after-release Dark Souls-style "invasions" system that never ended up materializing, and the general unfocused nature of the final product compared to its predecessor. but getting a peek behind the scenes here is really interesting because even though it's not the focus of this post, it does help paint a picture of a pretty rough dev cycle. it's really too bad because DOOM (2016) was an excellent complete package of a game, and Eternal felt pretty rough by comparison… I wonder what the franchise can do to make a comeback at this point. personally I'd be alright with letting the DOOM brand lie fallow for awhile once again before taking another crack at it.

fantastic read, and I hope things go better for Mr. Gordon going forward.

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