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The Prospects for War with China

chrisblattman.com

71–80 of 87 posts

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#71
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a consideration for: > things turn ugly PRC's leverage start after shooting starts (like TSMC), when PRC closes air and maritime space and specifies repatriation corridors will stop first on mainland for processing. International community sees all the cratered TW runways and entire TW coast except some West locations are saturated with mines and conclude, there's no other choice - can't airlift or merchant flee…

> can't airlift or merchant fleet into what's not accessbile Couldn't the U.S. planes drop aid packages, as in other conflicts? > Countries take repatrioting thier citizens seriously, and since PRC has ultimate veto over entry/egress to island, they have leverage, especially if there is a timer ticking down to when the island will run out of water and food. Are you talking about foreign nationals unrelated to China a…

Airlift (airdrop even less) isn't remotely enough to sustain 24M people, that requires maritime bulk cargo and available port infra.

> unrelated to China and Taiwan

Yes. Foreign nationals operating on what PRC considers to be Chinese territory under rival governemnt without CCP assent. Many of whom working in NGOs/agencies specifically to undermine PRC interests. I don't how international law will categorizes them, but PRC has good argument for "not civilians".

> give them ample time prior ... > sinks an actual PLAN vessel

There's going to be time/opportunites assuming graduated escalation process, but TBH I presume chance of inciting spark that pushes things to 100% more likely and preferrable for PRC. Even in a blockade scenario I think PRC will preemptively destroy major TW military targets that could threaten back, which PRC can do so without much telegraphing via air/rocketry. Lesson from RU/UKR is no half measures. Blockade = PRC is starving the island and not invading, but doesn't mean it won't defang TW first, PRC won't give TW the chance for fair fight or maintain ability fight back. As far as taking hits, it would be resumption of civil war and losses would be expected including mainland strikes by TW missiles.

> delicate diplomatic situations ... > undoing diplomacy

Look at RU vs LIO relations now, it's unsalvageable regardless of how mild the war started. And with respect to PRC/TW the countries that plan to sanction PRC are simultaneously trying to increase TW cooperation to undermine PRC interests while their genpop perception of PRC is already in gutters, so even less reason the cooperate, regardless of why shitshow started (i.e. LIO MSM will fault PRC even if PRC responding to provocations). And third parties that cultivate relationship with TW inspite of PRC warnings are in better position to compel TW into concessions anyway. IMO another lesson from RU/UKR war is just how little diplomacy is possible between active belligerants when strong outside actors are involved, i.e. RU isn't going to convince UKR to talk, but US might.

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#72
post #5

Until very recently, I did not believe that there is any chance that China will attempt to invade Taiwan in the near future. Nevertheless, after USA has not remained content to try to cripple the Chinese semiconductor manufacturing industry, but now it pressures Taiwan to stop manufacturing integrated circuits for China, I have become worried for the first time that a Chinese invasion is no longer impossible. If Taiw…

China will invade Taiwan regardless because their "Great Leader" has made it the center of his foreign policy. Now that there's no more opposition to his rule we can only wait for the ax to fall. I've already come to the conclusion China has won this fight, because the economic cost will be too great for the West to bare. My advice to the Biden Administration would be to deprecate the relations with Taiwan to lower e…

I've come to the opposite conclusion that China won't invade the Republic of China because China has won this fight already. Unless they really, really have to because the Republic of China has declared independence from China. They have stated this many, many times already.

Cast your mind back 150 years or so. The Union only declared war and invaded the Confederacy because of the same reason.

No side wins in a Civil War.

Incidentally, the Chinese Civil War is a frozen conflict, but still ongoing even though a Truce is in effect. It's almost exactly the same thing as the ongoing Korean War that's never been concluded after 70-odd years.

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#73
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about prospects of war between the US and China. According to official US policy, which is the One China policy, Taiwan and mainland China are the same country, and any disputes between the mainland and Taiwan is an intra-chinese dispute, not a dispute between two separate countries, and not anything that involves the U.S. at all. Now if, for some reason, Taiwan declares independence, then it will be u…

> The article is about prospects of war between the US and China. According to official US policy, which is the One China policy, Taiwan and mainland China are the same country, and any disputes between the mainland and Taiwan is an intra-chinese dispute, not a dispute between two separate countries, and not anything that involves the U.S. at all. The US has never recognized PRC claims to Taiwan. The US “One China Po…

> The US has never recognized PRC claims to Taiwan.

This is false. And the US also promised to remove all military forces and installations, which they have never done. There are today US troops in Taiwan. The constant lying to China by the U.S. matches the lying about the Minsk 2 agreements to Russia, and this has created a huge blow to American credibility as a negotiating partner.

Here is the Shanghai communique:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Shanghai_Communiqu%C3%A9

"11. The Chinese side reaffirmed its position: the Taiwan question is the crucial question obstructing the normalization of relations between China and the United States; the Government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government of China; Taiwan is a province of China which has long been returned to the motherland; the liberation of Taiwan is China's internal affair in which no other country has the right to interfere; and all US forces and military installations must be withdrawn from Taiwan. The Chinese Government firmly opposes any activities which aim at the creation of "one China, one Taiwan", "one China, two governments", "two Chinas", an "independent Taiwan" or advocate that "the status of Taiwan remains to be determined".

12.The US side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States Government does not challenge that position. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves. With this prospect in mind, it affirms the ultimate objective of the withdrawal of all US forces and military installations from Taiwan. In the meantime, it will progressively reduce its forces and military installations on Taiwan as the tension in the area diminishes. The two sides agreed that it is desirable to broaden the understanding between the two peoples. To this end, they discussed specific areas in such fields as science, technology, culture, sports and journalism, in which people-to-people contacts and exchanges would be mutually beneficial. Each side undertakes to facilitate the further development of such contacts and exchanges."

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has already signaled that only 25% of iPhones will be made outside of China by 2025. That will leave the company completely vulnerable if were to be cut-off from its Chinese suppliers. I predict the company will simply go bankrupt if that were to happen. That's the second time you've made that claim, and it's just as implausible as it was the first time. Companies go bankrupt because of debt . Apple has appro…

Apple would lose its ability to produce and sell products if a complete boycott of China were to ensue. This would mean Apple's revenue and income would shrivel to almost zero overnight. Its stock valuation would drop 99% or more. There's no company that could survive such a financial shock. Yes, they have some money in the bank, but that won't save them.

Baloney. It's revenue would drop almost to zero. It would stay there until Apple arranged alternate manufacturing, and then it would come back - probably not to where it currently is, because the alternate manufacturing would not initially have the same capacity. Stock dropping 99%? No way. Others can see that Apple has a way back, the same as I can.

Look, it would be very damaging. I don't deny it. Bankruptcy, though? No. You're being an alarmist.

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#75
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we could just de-escalate the situation with China. Dial back some of the economic squabbling as well as the military posturing. The West and China need each other economically, and both Biden and Xi are smart enough-- and old enough to remember nuclear terror-- to not want WWIII. I feel like most of the escalation is coming from the West though. They're the ones tossing around sanctions and national-security…

> I feel like most of the escalation is coming from the West though. They're the ones tossing around sanctions and national-security noise on speculation-- China might invade Taiwan. China is free to anytime declare their intention of never invading Taiwan. China is free to anytime officially recognize the fact that the PRC and the ROC are two separate governments of two separate countries. China is free to anytime c…

Do other powers have to make these promises? Does anyone pester Rishi Sunak for guarantees they won't he won't try to retake Massachusetts?

It feels like any sort of restrictive foreign-policy promise is a no-win. A "no invasion" promise would be a license for every seperatist element to push their agenda, which feels like losing a huge amount of influence. It also seems like it could tie their hands in an actual crisis (i. e. a terrorism scenario where the Taiwanese government refused to cooperate in investigation/prosecution)

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan claims that China belongs to them. Why do you not require them to declare anything?

Do you understand that Taiwan would love to do exactly that, but that China would take such a statement as a declaration of independence and would engage in military action? Taiwan literally wants to do exactly what you proposed. They want to renounce having anything to do with China.

ROC already claims that China belongs to them. Do you understand that?

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple would lose its ability to produce and sell products if a complete boycott of China were to ensue. This would mean Apple's revenue and income would shrivel to almost zero overnight. Its stock valuation would drop 99% or more. There's no company that could survive such a financial shock. Yes, they have some money in the bank, but that won't save them.

Baloney. It's revenue would drop almost to zero. It would stay there until Apple arranged alternate manufacturing, and then it would come back - probably not to where it currently is, because the alternate manufacturing would not initially have the same capacity. Stock dropping 99%? No way. Others can see that Apple has a way back, the same as I can. Look, it would be very damaging. I don't deny it. Bankruptcy, thoug…

I'm done arguing with you. We'll see who's right when things get hot.

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#79
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

counterpoint: The US is free at any time to stop invading other countries, trying to overthrow other countries, and enter into conflicts thousands of miles from their borders. But really, it doesn't seem that they do. The US has invaded or attacked over 120 countries since 1991[1]. Absolutely none of them were a threat to the United States. How many countries has China invaded in the same period? How many has it bomb…

US invasions have nothing to do with the fact that China is publicly saying that they want to invade the independent country of Taiwan.

The U.S. doesn't even recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, so your remark is moot.

Re: The Prospects for War with China

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious what your intention is with this response.

I love the Spartan response to his invaders with overwhelming numbers. Taiwan is no match for the PRC army but they are a sovereign country and should stand up to the bully.

And what does that have to do with anything GP said?
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