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Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

bbc.com

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Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#281

Post by interpenetrate »

omginternets wrote: post #196
interpenetrate wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. So the "cultural difference" you were referring to is the capacity to commit horrendous atrocities against basic civil rights that the West is too benevolent to grasp. You just used the words "expunging basic civil rights" and "atrocities" instead of "evil." You're one step further in the logical progression than the people you were annoyed with in your first reply to me. This unfolding progression is w…

Most of us are capable of distinguishing Chinese citizens from the CCP. It would be helpful to this discussion if you were to do the same.

The final step, you've unified the two sentences: "Chinese people are docile and weak or are evil, greedy liars."

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#282

Post by interpenetrate »

dirtyid wrote: post #130
remarkEon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You invented some weird strawman about how great China is and that's why they need to lockdown (1.2 Billion people or something). I'm pointing out that the reason they're locking down is because their science sucks and as a result the vaccine doesn't work, so Covid is still a thing there when it isn't in the West because we have working vaccines and also a lot of people with natural immunity.

> West because we have working vaccines PRC vaccines work about as well as western ones in preventing serious cases, which is to say western vaccines suck as much as PRC vaccines post delta when they couldn't do the one thing that distinguished themselves - preventing spread (which from recent Pfizer drama they didn't even test for so mRNA was... never substantially superior). Hence the entire narrative around superi…

The scope of Science has been set by private capital, but the Chinese lockdown is very clearly a scientific endeavor. Might as well compare vaccines vs. lockdown as two scientifically-informed tactics, although the two aren't mutually exclusive, as in the case of China.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#283

Post by squokko »

chii wrote: post #96
squokko wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans riot because their protected right to riot is so inculcated in them since birth that they do not really even think that it's a matter of perspective.

There's a difference between protesting and rioting tho.

Americans empirically do have the right to riot. Almost nobody involved in the 2020 BLM riots suffered any legal consequence from it, and short of the people who actually did things like steal Nancy Pelosi's laptop, most of the Jan6 people will get off scot free as well.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#284

Post by rbanffy »

screamingninja wrote: post #258
rbanffy wrote: post #252

Do they at least get free rides during quarantine?

They do! > However, those awaiting their freedom at Shanghai Disney can console themselves with one positive: rides are continuing to operate for those trapped inside The Happiest Place on Earth.

Can we go in?

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#285

Post by cameldrv »

tinus_hn wrote: post #280
cameldrv wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western world made a show of trying, but trying to balance political considerations with covid control is basically impossible. When cases are low, the political pressure to relax restrictions is irresistible, and then R goes above 1, but the political will to do anything about it comes too late to help much. Frankly I'm surprised that China managed to control Omicron. It's certainly a social-technical feat. In t…

Ah, clinging to the old fantasy of ‘low R values’, as if somehow that will cause the pandemic to disappear. In reality that outcome will online happen when there are exactly 0 cases left, both in humans and animals, in any country in the world. Spoiler: that’s never going to happen.

The fantasy is a reality in China. It's not necessary to get to zero cases to have a disease simply not be a major problem, similar to Measles in the U.S. In the general population for Measles RThe fantasy with COVID was that you'd get R<1 for a period of time until there was a vaccine, and then the vaccine would do all of the work keeping R<1. Unfortunately the COVID vaccine doesn't do that. Hopefully some day we will have one that does that.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#286

Post by slowmovintarget »

mrtksn wrote: post #132
nixcraft wrote: post #23

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

China's vaccine doesn't work. The zero-COVID policy works to control the spread of SARS-COV-2 and its variants. The policy does not work to control the spread of human misery, unemployment, and general disruption of lives. But the people in government have no ethical framework, and no political consequences requiring they attend to the actual needs of the people governed.

At this point, it is about the appearance of taking action so that the policy decisions of Xi Jinping's government seem correct, not about doing what's effective for the overall health of the system which includes all of the governed in all the variety of their activities and pursuits.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#287

Post by slowmovintarget »

captainmuon wrote: post #256
mensetmanusman wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Third, COVID is special as it is one of the few airborne / aerosol-transmitted diseases that you have a good chanche of suppressing.” The fatal flaw of this reasoning is that it lies dormant in animals.

Zoonotic spillovers are rare, this is why you probably never heard about corona viruses before 2002/2003 (SARS). The probability is increasing of course because we are detroying animals' habitats. And because we live in a densely interconnected world but can't agree on how to control diseases. We can either work on those problems, or throw the hands up in the air and blame the bats.

SARS-COV-2 combines aspects of HIV, the common cold, and Monsanto-engineered protein sequences, none of which had any chance of coming together in a single organism in the wild in order to combine like this.

I don't think bats are to blame, nor can this be a "simple matter" of zoonotic spillover.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#288

Post by 93po »

chengiz wrote: post #254
jl6 wrote: post #206

Struggling to understand China’s endgame here. Assuming they achieve zero covid, surely they will be left with a population that is still vulnerable to covid, while the rest of the world (which has largely stopped caring) will have developed immunity the hard way, and therefore China must maintain permanent quarantine/isolation to avoid reintroducing the virus?

The Chinese government does not care about its people catching covid. It is not about covid but about clamping down. It's a training exercise for what to do during rebellion.

Are the Chinese people at risk of rebelling and overthrowing their government or is this more weird anti-China xenophobia based on absolutely nothing?

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#289

Post by 93po »

tsol wrote: post #167
lvturner wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't -- they may leave if they show a negative covid test, and one would assume there are testing capabilities on site shortly after the announcement. Last report is that everyone left by 10:30pm [0] Don't get me wrong however, I would not appreciate being stuck in such circumstances for multiple hours. [0] https://www.scmp.com/video/coronavirus/3197996/thousands-stu... (video timestamp: 0:50)

>Last report is that everyone left by 10:30pm [0] That certainly sounds hectic, but this feels like clickbait. Being delayed by a few hours is pretty typical anywhere you may go with unforeseen circumstances.

Of course it's clickbait. China is bad and therefore we must make things look as ridiculous as possible, and make sure people leave comments (as we're already seeing in this thread) about China treating its citizens like prisoners

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#290

Post by tinus_hn »

cameldrv wrote: post #285
tinus_hn wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, clinging to the old fantasy of ‘low R values’, as if somehow that will cause the pandemic to disappear. In reality that outcome will online happen when there are exactly 0 cases left, both in humans and animals, in any country in the world. Spoiler: that’s never going to happen.

The fantasy is a reality in China. It's not necessary to get to zero cases to have a disease simply not be a major problem, similar to Measles in the U.S. In the general population for Measles R The fantasy with COVID was that you'd get R<1 for a period of time until there was a vaccine, and then the vaccine would do all of the work keeping R<1. Unfortunately the COVID vaccine doesn't do that. Hopefully some day we w…

Well I don’t know what the mainstream theory was in the US but in the Netherlands it was ‘well if due to our lockdowns R is smaller than 1 the disease will just die down’. Which is obviously nonsensical in a pandemic.
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