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Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

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Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#191

Post by dotancohen »

xkbarkar wrote: post #187
thedrbrian wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>get the vaccine without turning into political drama all over Twitter. The vaccine that doesn't stop you from getting it.

According research (just google is and look at the actual papers and the data set in them and how it was calculated), with the exception of properly worn high grade medical PPE, neither does masking. Universal masking is little more than pointless hysterical hype. Flimsy reused surgical masks, bandanas and home made cloth masks only look f-good in mathematical projections, never in the actual real world results. No I…

This again? The masks are to prevent _you_ from spewing infections agents all over the place. The masks are not to protect you. The masks are intended to protect other people from you.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#192

Post by mettamage »

derkades wrote: post #102
theGeatZhopa wrote: post #10

They're still able to have fun there. Rides continue to work :) On the other side, in some parts of Europe there's a discussion to let the infected go to work (even with symptoms and of course, if one's feeling capable of work) - but, still, go to work with other infected/work with infected. I can understand that with so high density in people even one infection can lead to big massive spreads and thus to overloaded…

Here in the Netherlands, it may not be policy, but a large number of people just don't care anymore. People with symptoms like coughing and changing tone of voice are still going to school, work and parties. No one wears masks except for some tourists or other foreigners. When planning an event, not a single moment is thought about COVID.

I don't care anymore because I've eyeballed that on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) [1], and it doesn't seem to be changing. That's less than flu season (which is more like 3000 to 5000 per year). I don't have sources for the flu. I read it somewhere, I might be underestimating or overestimating a bit.

And of course, all those deaths are horrible, and I feel that pain when I contemplate that for a second. But in my day to day life, I don't see why I'd need to change my behavior.

I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, but IMO I feel like I need to choose the lesser between two evils which is:

1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide?

2. Do I lock myself down for 5 years, and fight preventing reduced long Covid and 0.15% deaths population wide?

The choices are written down simplified. If you think that there's hindsight bias, there's some but a lot less than you think. I was 2 to 3 weeks ahead of the Dutch government at any point in time. I've been able to protect all the people I care about. For example, my grandparents/parents never caught Covid when there was no vaccine (I was tracking Covid since mid Feb 2022 as a potential threat and constantly ran the probabilities). I'm not even sure if my grandparents ever caught it.

[1] coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#193

Post by omginternets »

interpenetrate wrote: post #67
rippercushions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here you go: one way to complete the previous sentence about what exactly happens to children in China when their parents are arrested. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/15/china-xinjiang-children-...

Much more interesting to follow live stories rather than throw around Adrian Zenz's crumbs years later. Here's the ongoing protest I was referring to, where "shattered lives" is a bruised back or (worse) the imaginary threat of becoming proletarian: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/china-henan-bank-deposi...

It’s telling that you went from “show me historical precedent” to “history is off limits”.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#194

Post by omginternets »

interpenetrate wrote: post #115
remarkEon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You invented some weird strawman about how great China is and that's why they need to lockdown (1.2 Billion people or something). I'm pointing out that the reason they're locking down is because their science sucks and as a result the vaccine doesn't work, so Covid is still a thing there when it isn't in the West because we have working vaccines and also a lot of people with natural immunity.

Oh. Well more people died of COVID in the past two weeks in the U.S. (where COVID is no longer a thing) than have died of COVID in China ever.

My how the goalpost has shifted.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#195

Post by matthewdgreen »

mrtksn wrote: post #132
nixcraft wrote: post #23

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

If a disease arises with a much higher fatality rate, lockdowns are still pretty much our only tool to deal with it. Eradication or not, we’re not going to survive a 35% IFR virus with business-as-usual plus hand washing and masks. China will locally eradicate it, and here in the US well… I dunno. It’s not looking great.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#196

Post by omginternets »

interpenetrate wrote: post #109
systemvoltage wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Chinese people are docile and weak" and "Chinese people are evil, greedy liars." No one is saying Chinese people are evil. My advice to you would be to stop making strawmans like this, that's not what people mean when they expose these atrocities. The CCP is the problem here and the authorities that are expunging basic civil rights in the name of COVID needs to be condemned. COVID is an excuse to control the popul…

That's right. So the "cultural difference" you were referring to is the capacity to commit horrendous atrocities against basic civil rights that the West is too benevolent to grasp. You just used the words "expunging basic civil rights" and "atrocities" instead of "evil." You're one step further in the logical progression than the people you were annoyed with in your first reply to me. This unfolding progression is w…

Most of us are capable of distinguishing Chinese citizens from the CCP. It would be helpful to this discussion if you were to do the same.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#197

Post by yellow_lead »

b0ner_t0ner wrote: post #7

As long as they keep the “TRON Lightcycle Power Run” ride open, it's still better than being stuck inside an IKEA (previously: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62547503 ); at least you get some outdoor area.

> rides are continuing to operate for those trapped inside The Happiest Place on Earth

So there's an outbreak, but yeah let's let everyone squish onto the rides together.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#198

Post by geraldcombs »

elvis10ten wrote: post #45
nixcraft wrote: post #23

Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…

> washing hands I always thought the pandemic will make fist bumps or other forms of greetings “mainstream”. But everyone (I know) have reverted back to hand shakes. I guessing the same with Covid hygiene measures. > get the vaccine without turning into political drama all over Twitter. Like the majority of the people not taking the vaccine are on Twitter or do so because of social media drama.

> I always thought the pandemic will make fist bumps or other forms of greetings “mainstream”. But everyone (I know) have reverted back to hand shakes.

I thought that the pandemic would make sneezing and coughing into your hands passé, but I still see plenty of people doing exactly that.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#199

Post by donkeyd »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #195
mrtksn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…

If a disease arises with a much higher fatality rate, lockdowns are still pretty much our only tool to deal with it. Eradication or not, we’re not going to survive a 35% IFR virus with business-as-usual plus hand washing and masks. China will locally eradicate it, and here in the US well… I dunno. It’s not looking great.

> China will locally eradicate it

You understand that with globalization, this makes no sense, right? It will return, again and again. Economic impact of always going into lockdown will be insane. Another reason for western companies to become less dependent on China in the long term, massive reduction in productivity in the short term.

Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test

#200

Post by matthewdgreen »

donkeyd wrote: post #199
matthewdgreen wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a disease arises with a much higher fatality rate, lockdowns are still pretty much our only tool to deal with it. Eradication or not, we’re not going to survive a 35% IFR virus with business-as-usual plus hand washing and masks. China will locally eradicate it, and here in the US well… I dunno. It’s not looking great.

> China will locally eradicate it You understand that with globalization, this makes no sense, right? It will return, again and again. Economic impact of always going into lockdown will be insane. Another reason for western companies to become less dependent on China in the long term, massive reduction in productivity in the short term.

With luck it means we’ll survive a high-IFR virus until vaccines are available, and won’t lose a huge chunk of our population and suffer collapse. China will even have a working economy. In the face of something truly deadly there aren’t good alternatives. China’s unwillingness/inability to switch to a post-vaccine strategy is the error here, not their very successful use of quarantine+lockdown pre-vaccine.
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