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Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

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Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#391

Post by otherme123 »

skytreader wrote: post #290
otherme123 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My TKD teacher once told us that he always looks for "cheaters" within the rules or out-of-the-box thinkers, because that's the right mindset to be succesful at competitions. When you play by the rules, you are limited to your abilities. But if you can squeeze advantages here and there, you can climb some extra spots, maybe to the top.

Hey! Fellow TKD practitioner here. I'm just curious if you found ways to "cheat the rules" so to speak. Mind sharing them? I know that with the direction the sport has taken in the last decade or so, there are probably a hell lot of hacks right now. I even heard that players would change tactics (ie., rely on certain kicks/strikes more) depending on the hogu brand in use. But I competed before the advent of e-hogus a…

Nothing serious. We were training combat and we were given a small set of rules to get points which included (in hindsight) obvious holes. The smart guys quickly detected and exploited the holes, to the dismay of their opponents, some of whom got very angry. This was maybe 10 years ago, so one I remember: the rule was "a point if you slap your opponent shoulder with your hand", demonstrated as trying to hit the further shoulder of the opponent. It was a game of reflexes, keep the distance, quick entry and blocking, but also it was too easy to hit the closest shoulder, something someone noticed after a good two minutes into the exercise.

Before the e-hogus a fellow competitor used to punch in a way that was not damage effective, but made a lot of noise and looked like a real punch (almost like a backhand slap), scoring a lot of points. Their opponents claimed that they weren't even hit. Another guy used to launch kicks in the last possible moment of a clinch (almost always a jump-turning-and-back-kick, tuio mondollyo tuit chagi, don't know the name in english), just when he noticed in the corner of the eye the referee intended to break the clinch.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#392

Post by BoorishBears »

dncornholio wrote: post #282

In every form of racing this guy would be called a cheater, but NASCAR is different. NASCAR isn't about the racing, it's about entertainment.

That is so not true. The spirit of motorsport across so so many forms is poking and prodding at the limits of the rules.

From "$500" 24 Hours of Lemons racers that intentionally start with negative laps to go over $500 to most banned F1 tech (99% of it was stuff that wasn't explicitly against the rules when created: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/10-craziest-technologies-...)

Once the tech is banned sometimes clever cheats show up to keep using it, but that's not what happened here.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#393

Post by Shocka1 »

sokoloff wrote: post #363
Shocka1 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some family members that are huge fans, so I follow somewhat. It should be noted with your link that Darlington is a much faster and lengthier track than Martinsville. At Darlington, Larson was very close to Hamlin when he initiated the wall ride halfway through the corner - he may have gained a half second or so, not several, like at Martinsville. I see this as more of a Richmond/Martinsville short track stra…

I think you’ll see the defensive line move up the track to block this on exit, which will open up the possibility for someone to get under the defending car, which should make the racing tactics more interesting in the last lap. This tactic will wear the car out far too much to be used on multiple laps, so it may just get race fans to experience more excitement and interest on the last lap.

Sure, but a driver isn't blocking the guys right behind them. Someone isn't going to win the race from 10 cars back, but anyone three seconds behind the leader can pull it off. From what I saw, a driver would easily be able to pass the driver one to three cars in front. So blocking the outside on exit might work for the guy coming from 5 to 10 spots back, but the leader will lose every time to the guys directly behind. And if the driver directly in front goes to the outside on entry to block, then a dive bomb from the person behind on the inside will work just fine too. I'm not sure why anyone should take the regular line at that point. What's stopping every car in the top 10 from going around the outside bouncing off the wall, especially when there is money on the line?

At the moment I'm looking forward to the last corner/last lap of one of these short track races with a lot of money or championship at stake. I picture it playing out exactly like the first corner in a Forza online multiplayer race. One or two players staying in the race line, two other drivers dive bombing, four others bouncing off the wall on the outside, resulting in a mess of fiberglass, tears, and mad drivers. I just hope a fan in the stands doesn't catch a loose part.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#394

Post by thrtythreeforty »

lisper wrote: post #270
thrtythreeforty wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of similar to helicopter autorotation, isn't it?

It depends on what you consider "similar", but no, the rotation of the paper has nothing to do with the rotation of helicopter blades during autorotation. In that case, the blades act like ordinary wings and they do an ordinary glide, albeit in a circular direction because the blades are fixed at one end. What happens with the paper is different. The axis of rotation is horizontal rather than vertical. However, there…

I see, thank you. Your initial description sounded more like a maple seed's wing. I did not know you could generate lift as described in your links.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#395

Post by lisper »

thrtythreeforty wrote: post #394
lisper wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you consider "similar", but no, the rotation of the paper has nothing to do with the rotation of helicopter blades during autorotation. In that case, the blades act like ordinary wings and they do an ordinary glide, albeit in a circular direction because the blades are fixed at one end. What happens with the paper is different. The axis of rotation is horizontal rather than vertical. However, there…

I see, thank you. Your initial description sounded more like a maple seed's wing. I did not know you could generate lift as described in your links.

Neither did I :-) I only learned about it about 20 years after the fact.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#396

Post by sokoloff »

Shocka1 wrote: post #393
sokoloff wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ll see the defensive line move up the track to block this on exit, which will open up the possibility for someone to get under the defending car, which should make the racing tactics more interesting in the last lap. This tactic will wear the car out far too much to be used on multiple laps, so it may just get race fans to experience more excitement and interest on the last lap.

Sure, but a driver isn't blocking the guys right behind them. Someone isn't going to win the race from 10 cars back, but anyone three seconds behind the leader can pull it off. From what I saw, a driver would easily be able to pass the driver one to three cars in front. So blocking the outside on exit might work for the guy coming from 5 to 10 spots back, but the leader will lose every time to the guys directly behin…

> What's stopping every car in the top 10 from going around the outside bouncing off the wall, especially when there is money on the line?

Nothing at all. Everyone will end up doing it on the last half lap at short tracks and no one will have an advantage, lots of cars will get torn up, and owners will ask NASCAR to stop making them tear up a $250K racecar every short track race.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#397

Post by darepublic »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
jefftk wrote: post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

Yes there is social pressure not to try anything so unorthodox. If you fail the social / reputational fallout will be greater than it you failed the old fashioned way.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#398

Post by banannaise »

philwelch wrote: post #375
banannaise wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, two of those five things are known to be counterproductive, but coaches still do them, presumably due to social expectation and/or job security. Conservative play calling with a lead, particularly on defense, is known to reduce your chances of holding the lead. Sticking to more balanced tactics leads to losses that look more spectacular, but fewer of them. And depending on how you look at the stats, the "ic…

I’ve heard for years that, statistically, icing the kicker doesn’t work. But whenever I actually see it happen, it’s in a situation where the defending team has no other productive use for the timeout, which means there’s also no reason not to ice the kicker.

You're correct, I misspoke. One is counterproductive and one (icing the kicker) is benignly useless.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#399

Post by philodelta »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #70
jefftk wrote: post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

Though there is the threat of rules being made to govern "unsportsman-like" behavior that dissuades this kind of thing. If the powers that govern the sport determine they don't want this to be a mainstay, they can rule it out. The videogame exists in a realm of concrete and unchanging rules, theres no threat of making anyone mad, besides the person at the other end of the couch of course.
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