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FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

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Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#61

Post by nicolashahn »

InitialBP wrote: post #54
bishnu wrote: post #8

How would this even work? Get it out of the app stores, fine. But presumably the URL would still be accessible? Likewise sideloading it onto Android devices?

If you removed it from the app stores, a humungous percentage of people would no longer install the app. There will certainly be some tech literate folks who do so, but most people have very little tolerance for technical challenges outside of the norm and would stop at, it's not in the app store anymore.

Maybe. For Android it's very easy to sideload, just share a link for an APK download and then open it. Easy and quick enough for even a TikTok-addled ADD brain to do.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#63

Post by Overtonwindow »

creato wrote: post #41
kibwen wrote: post #37

Just like last time this came up, what actual law is the executive branch accusing TikTok of breaking? I'm no fan of TikTok nor of the CCP and its asymmetric corporate warfare, but the executive branch must not be allowed to invent its own laws.

Many imports are banned or heavily tariffed at the whim of the executive branch, I don’t see how this is any different.

They could put a tariff on TikTok.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#64

Post by legitster »

kibwen wrote: post #37

Just like last time this came up, what actual law is the executive branch accusing TikTok of breaking? I'm no fan of TikTok nor of the CCP and its asymmetric corporate warfare, but the executive branch must not be allowed to invent its own laws.

This is a weird example where we are handing our adversaries something, and they are quietly stockpiling it. And we have no idea what they are doing with it, but it's just kind a weirding out our foreign policy experts.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#65

Post by sosodev »

legitster wrote: post #60

The whole emergence of TikTok in the US was an almost hilariously slow moving policy crisis. We know it's nefarious, but no one has really figured out a coherent reason of why . Like, even before it really took off in the states you could read reports of this highly addictive, nefarious platform that the CCP had their fingers all over getting ready to be bottled up and shipped over to the US. So now that it's here, w…

Do we know it's nefarious? I don't think we've seen any proof or as you pointed out we would know why

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#66

Post by nicolashahn »

kibwen wrote: post #57
nicolashahn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think preventing the CCP from accessing private data of American citizens probably falls under normal statecraft actions

Agreed, and "espionage" is a fine answer, but that raises the question of why they haven't gone as far as explicitly saying "espionage".

I think this is a bigger problem, from the article:

> Carr highlighted concerns about U.S. data flowing back to China and the risk of a state actor using TikTok to covertly influence political processes in the United States.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#67

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, how is that behavior any different than previous iterations of planking? It is not. The only real difference is that it puts control of a majority of social media young people use in the hands of a foreign power. When FB et al were doing the same thing ( with same access ), it was all great. I have no love for social media, but that ban starts at home AND if we accept the proposition that TikTok should be banned,…

> only real difference is that it puts control of a majority of social media young people use in the hands of a foreign power An adversary. Different discussion. National security versus public health / competition. We don't need to justify enforcement on Tik Tok against our lenience with Facebook because they're separate conversations. To my knowledge, regulators haven't raised anti-trust concerns with Tik Tok the w…

No. Same exact discussion. Those are not separate conversations thanks at partially to globalism and our interconnectedness and interdependence.

Yes, regulators also didn't raise any anti-trust concerns in general lately, where US economy is full of oligopolies, where individual companies have the resources, power and impact equal to some nation states and appetites to lock customers even further in their respective locked gardens. I am sorry, but I do not find this argument persuasive based on the reality on the ground alone. You can throw a rock at almost any industry in US and you will find several top dogs owning everything in it. And this is before we get to regulatory capture and revolving doors.

edit: To sum up, people like me would argue regulators are not doing their jobs.

Why not? Scratch that. Why are they separate conversations? It seems TikTok and FB are the same type of app. The only difference is that TikTok is housed in the wrong country.

Could you elaborate a little? I think I know what you are trying to say, but I do not want to put words in your mouth.

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#68

Post by trunnell »

Duh.

No reasonable adult (in any country) would go on the record to propose that a hostile foreign government should run any part of their internal communication infrastructure. It's well documented that all companies in China are beholden to the political whims of the Chinese Communist Party; when national security is at issue, Chinese companies and the Chinese government are one entity, sadly.

I'm squinting skeptically at all the comments here that are confused about this, especially the ones with extra helpings of carefully chosen rhetoric (whatabout-ism, free speech, free markets, etc). There are no "free speech" issues here, ByteDance is a foreign company, not a US person. This is a national security issue.

If you think it's cool to allow TikTok in Western countries, please explain why it would have been fine to allow the Nazis to run the Royal Mail, the US Postal Service, and one third of the broadcasting services in the 1930s. Would that have been a "free speech" or "free market" issue?

The Chinese government has a long way to go to earn the trust of other countries.

See this list of common Chinese propaganda themes to check if they may have already influenced you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_in_China#Common_CCP...

Re: FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok

#70

Post by nicolashahn »

kibwen wrote: post #58
nicolashahn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very related ban of Huawei, ZTE tech: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/13/17686310/huawei-zte-us-go... It was known that these companies actively work with the CCP against US interests, which is the same thing happening with TikTok now.

That's a bill that went through congress, and it only applies to the government's own use of those company's products (which I agree with on several fronts).

Carr is calling on congress to craft a bill, so that's in line with this. The situation is different there because the threat is different - the greatest threat from China is if they have a backdoor to US gov devices. The greatest threat with TikTok is (from the article):

> Carr highlighted concerns about U.S. data flowing back to China and the risk of a state actor using TikTok to covertly influence political processes in the United States.

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