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The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

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Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#471

Post by xigoi »

Comevius wrote: post #335
Mezzie wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with trans people, but making someone like Rachel Levine woman of the year on the basis of her accomplishments does ignore something important. Namely that a lot of the 'woman of the X' awards are meant to inspire or encourage women in fields they are discouraged from, and that having been perceived as a male for a lot of her career meant that Levine didn't experience early career sexism and that so…

The question is whether a wrong (discrimination of women) can be fixed with another wrong (discrimination of transgender women) or should we just do what's right in the first place. The entire point is that we shouldn't build artificial obstacles anymore. The conservatives are obsessed with who's what color and gender, what they are doing in the bedroom or in the hospital, but we don't have to. None of this should ma…

> The conservatives are obsessed with who's what color and gender, what they are doing in the bedroom or in the hospital, but we don't have to. None of this should matter, not for an engineering job, not for anything.

Tell me again, which side is establishing “affirmative action”?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#472

Post by xigoi »

MollyRealized wrote: post #412
ZGDUwpqEWpUZ wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe Babylon Bee should've been suspended not because of any moral issue but because Twitter was not a governmental entity You believe they should have been suspended because they could have been? What gibberish. This is very much a moral issue. The fact that Twitter isn't a governmental entity is irrelevant. They have a huge platform with a corresponding influence on our culture and debate. Everyone accepts t…

"Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech." Congress, not Twitter.

Do you consider anything moral that doesn't violate the law?

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#473

Post by xigoi »

ncallaway wrote: post #373
5560675260 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter is free to set up their moderation policy as it sees fit, but at the same time public is free to criticise Twitter for said moderation policy and the way it's applied. The fact that they can ban Bablylon Bee (under current law) doesn't mean that everyone should just shrug and accept it.

> but at the same time public is free to criticise Twitter for said moderation policy and the way it's applied I certainly never argued that the public should not be allowed to criticize Twitter.

> If you want to say things on their platform, you have to follow their rules.

This implies that rules set up by social media sihes are sacred and shôldn't be questioned.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#474

Post by xigoi »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #235
electrondood wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how people keep conflating First Amendment Constitutional rights with the additional layer of "this is a private platform, we prefer not to have it overrun with assholes that make it really unpleasant for everyone else." 1A rights apply to GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE in your expression. There is no "lack of free speech on Twitter," nor do they owe anyone unrestricted freedom to spread disinfo and hate…

This! So much... No body is owed a platform. I grew up in the 80s you had to be a news personality or famous to reach people. Echo chambers weren't a thing because the chamber was your neighbors and some of them would probably laugh in your face at crazy things or slap you if it's offensive. When you can join groups where you know it's safe to say whatever, you will, and you'll be emboldened and think that's how ever…

Most people would also laugh at you if you said you're demiromantic bunnygender.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#475

Post by gaganyaan »

socialismisok wrote: post #431
gaganyaan wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"gender" as a term on its own is used very confusedly by a lot of people, but there's a simple definition that makes things clear: "gender == sex". The trick is that "gender" disambiguates that you mean "sex as it relates to a social context" instead of "sex as it relates to a biological context". Where this all gets cleared up is that you should use more specific terms such as "Gender norms", "gender presentation",…

Gender doesn't equal sex, though. My non binary friends are very much equipped with penises or vaginas. There's a wide variety of genders in the rest of the world as well. While this is a newer concept in American and Western cultures, there are non male, non female genders dating back to mesopotamia.

My point is just that more specific terminology should be used. Your friends have nonbinary gender presentation, but that doesn't make their gender something other than male or female.

And sure, there's historically been a wide range of gender roles, norms, and expectations, but there's only ever been two genders.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#476

Post by CapricornNoble »

socialismisok wrote: post #440
NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hot take is that it's OK to mock senior government officials, actually. Mocking senior American government officials is the most protected speech in the country, in fact. I do it liberally an encourage others to. It's the most fundamental part of holding them accountable.

Is all mocking fair game? I mean, I hard agree with you, but I think there are things that are gauche or hurtful to mock. Like, I think Obama was a bad president and there are plenty of mock worthy things there, but depicting him and Michelle as apes is beyond the pale for me. Mock his policies, mock his affect, mock his social behaviors in other countries, hell, mock his tan suit. But to bust out racist memes? I dun…

Michelle Obama is fairly tall (5'11") and has a masculine jawline. I'm black and I LOL'd the first time I saw her called a Wookie (probably in the dumpster fire comments section of ZeroHedge). I mean, take a look: https://starsunfolded.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Michell...

Alicia Keys or Keri Hilson she ain't....

If she were an absentee First Lady and less proactive, I could totally see someone calling her "Sasquatch" (a big mythical ape-creature rarely captured on camera) as a criticism and I'd be ok with that.

Babylon Bee attacked a high-profile trans public servant in a way meant to (IMO) provide commentary on society's approach to trans issues and the implications for biological females? I'm ok with that too. I think some comedian, maybe Bill Burr or Andrew Schulz, had a similar bit: "Men are so awesome we're even better at being women than actual women. That's why a Man[Bruce Jenner] is Woman of the Year[Caitlyn Jenner], in his first year as a woman." or something to that effect.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#477

Post by Mezzie »

Comevius wrote: post #406
Mezzie wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But trans women who were in the closet for most of their lives or who didn't know being trans was an option had DIFFERENT oppressions than cis women or trans women who were able to be themselves at a younger age. And being AMAB did matter a lot more when Levine was growing up. Levine could get a credit card, for example. Levine, as a future scientist, wouldn't have had her teachers and parents telling…

I kind of understand your perspective now. An award honoring women could be less appropriate for people who only transitioned later in their life, since they basically newcomers to being a woman. Though there are also awards that are for women, but for specific things, like flying the longest distance this year. Sport awards on the other hand can be problematic, because transgender women typically outperform women an…

It is complicated and context dependent. Like awarding Laverne Cox an actress of the year/woman of the year award or giving Eliot Page an actor of the year award doesn't engender the same annoyance on my part since acting as a career is open to both sexes so Laverne would genuinely be 100% standing on her acting chops.

I do hope that eventually there's no need for identity specific awards and honestly, I find them a little condescending myself. But they matter to a lot of women I speak to.

The primary difference in spaces is that as a 34 year old lesbian, I can tell annoying, insecure, or assholeish cis baby or older insecure lesbians to knock it off. I can't tell trans lesbians that because then I'm transphobic (this has happened). They like to have it both ways: They want to be treated like any other lesbian until it's pointed out that they're ignoring social protocol, then they want special treatment. Ironically, TERFs do the same thing. Call out their trolling and then it's 'I can be here, I'm a lesbian!'

Gay men are less worried about group cohesion and more open about conflict than lesbians are. Both TERFs and insecure trans women take advantage of cis woman socialization unfortunately.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#478

Post by labrador »

sascha_sl wrote: post #315
labrador wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not optional. I have to out myself as well. Any time I start getting in a serious relationship with someone I have to sit them down to have "the talk" about me being a recovering alcoholic and bipolar. It's usually a relationship killer. Let's be honest, you have a better chance of finding love than I do. I've been single for 10 years. Look, I don't want to fight. I just want to use humor to ease my pain. Humor…

Nothing is bad with jokes about trans people inherently. But as I already said, these are meant to tease your disgust reflex more than provoke laughter. I'd recommend looking up some trans comedians. Not that I think you need to be trans to make jokes about us, but it certainly seems to help go beyond the typical "X identifies as Y" one joke format that is so prevalent in conservative comedy and certainly the Babylon…

> I'd recommend looking up some trans comedians

Will do. That sounds interesting. Thanks for engaging and Godspeed.

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#479

Post by thedorkknight »

nemo44x wrote: post #450
thedorkknight wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hateful-condu... Key part being the last sentence here: "We prohibit targeting others with repeated slurs, tropes or other content that intends to dehumanize, degrade or reinforce negative or harmful stereotypes about a protected category. This includes targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender individuals." Perhaps Twitter does arbitrarily enforce punishment fo…

It’s satire. They aren’t harassing anyone, they’re making a joke about a public person. It’s a joke and it’s completely different than “targeted misgendering”.

It's satire that's making fun of transgenderism. It would only work as satire that isn't intentionally misgendering if it was mocking conservatism's refusal to accept someone's gender. Which is absolutely not what they're doing

Re: The Babylon Bee's Twitter account is no longer suspended

#480

Post by _-david-_ »

Comevius wrote: post #444
_-david-_ wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is watching Fox News or Newsmax counts as touching grass? It is the exact opposite. I think this proves my point that you need to get out. Please provide me some Fox or Newsmax links promoting hate and violence though. I would be interested in seeing what you call violence and hate. >Many of my sources touched grass and came to the opposite conclusion than you. I was suggesting you touch grass not people you listen…

Nothing you are saying invalidates these studies. It's not especially hard to run into this kind of hate out in the streets either, and if you are running an abortion clinic you pretty much have to deal with it on a daily basis. While we were talking a conservative man went to Nancy Pelosi's house looking for her and attacked her husband with a hammer. This was just one of the many high-profile incidents that occurre…

Please just stop. The person who attacked Pelosi's husband was a leftist.

https://nypost.com/2022/10/29/paul-pelosi-attacker-david-dep...

You need to get outside and stop going on the internet so much.

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