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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#331

Post by nabusman »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #231
grepfru_it wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited a Cisco office in India, I noticed there was a prominent notice of business application and listed the Indian owner of the company. I thought that was interesting and went digging into India law about ownership. When I came out of that rabbit hole I immediately had zero interest in starting up in India. Simply because of the bureaucracy and would be way more wink-wink-$$$-nudge-nudge than what I'm even…

Well, I expected this article to be about bribes, because I assume it happens a lot. However, there were no bribes. Does anyone have actual experience with bribes in India (not traffic police)? Edit: sorry, one person openly asked for a bribe, the Panchayat. I would like to understand more about this. Do they just ask for an amount?

IME the bribes are often not asked directly but instead the people in the office throw up insurmountable obstacles so that you initiate the conversation of bribes. I don't know why they do this, maybe because it puts them in a better negotiating position?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#332

Post by nabusman »

tkk23 wrote: post #274
primitivesuave wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to the comments to warn exactly this, perhaps more emphatically. Do not set up a legal entity in India. It will become a never-ending void where money and time go to die. The bureaucracy is hilariously inept and bloated, and if you are not willing to pay the bribes or for some entity to navigate the systemic corruption on your behalf, you will end up in OP's situation. Source: hired many Indian developers in r…

India is huge. Could there be a district with enough integrity that it can become the place to establish a company in India?

I think the state of Bihar is trying to do that (just armchair analysis from reading the news)

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#333

Post by RxVhmD5v »

thunkshift1 wrote: post #291

This is not an honest take on ‘ease of doing business in india’. What the author is trying to do is re-purpose his agricultural land for non agricultural use. For various socio-political reasons this is big no-no in many states in India and is known to be a very long winding and drawn out process because the govt does not want agricultural land to be re-purposed. I expected something along the lines of ‘I tried to se…

Thanks for the context. I remember this when this blog made the rounds originally. Didn't realize it's the same one that made HN front page again. Interesting that this is being floated around when India is trying hard to make a good foray into manufacturing. On a related note, a former central bank (RBI) governor is trying to sabotage India's manufacturing aspirations. Inimical forces that aspirational Indians will face while they dig out of the current mess is unimaginably powerful.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#334

Post by gautamdivgi »

rqtwteye wrote: post #17
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #8

India's obsession with paperwork is unceasing and baffling. Everything requires an application, even when everything can be done digitally. You need letters and stamps to get anything done. Case in point: the "company stamps" that are required for everything you do with your business. From getting a debit card to changing the maturity instructions for a corporate deposit, you need to sign your name AND stamp it with…

I remember buying a train ticket in Goa. This involved showing the passport and filling out multiple forms. It was pretty crazy.

Isn’t train ticketing online now? I know my 75 yr old dad just does it at home on his laptop.

Edit- echoing a comment further down. I got an Indian visa. It was done online and was emailed to me in 24hrs.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#335

Post by mradek »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #281
Seanambers wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India they optimize for maximum employment. It's the only place I've seen 7 people needed to refill a soda vending machine. Once I ordered some drinks brought up to my hotel room around 10 in the evening. It took forever - turned out the guy who made the drinks was sent home for the day. So the hotel called him back and had him return just so he could come and make the drinks and bring them to my room. Because tha…

Weird question: Did you feel embarassed when you learned driver was sleeping in the car? I would be. You: Sleeping in a 5 star. Them: In an uncomfortable car seat. When I traveled to Seam Reap, Cambodia, I was constantly embarassed when my driver did not come to eat with me. It was a weird, unpleasant peasant-ruler divide that I did not enjoy.

Honestly this kind of stuff is why I don’t travel to such places. Im sure they’re beautiful and whatever but I’d rather go spend time in an advanced country like Japan. The constant guilt tripping is not fun.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#336

Post by [deleted] »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #334
rqtwteye wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember buying a train ticket in Goa. This involved showing the passport and filling out multiple forms. It was pretty crazy.

Isn’t train ticketing online now? I know my 75 yr old dad just does it at home on his laptop. Edit- echoing a comment further down. I got an Indian visa. It was done online and was emailed to me in 24hrs.

[deleted]

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#337

Post by MichaelCollins »

cafard wrote: post #267
soperj wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have sent experts to the relevant tax offices etc, but the ONLY guy who can handle it is never there, refuses to deal with it, then says we need to go somewhere else - where we are sent back etc etc. Sent around in circles, basically - with everybody recognizing the money is in fact owed... That sounds exactly like they're needing a bribe, but you're too rooted in western ways of doing things that you don't real…

US citizens bribing foreign officials can be convicted of a felony under (I think it is) The Foreign Corrupt Practices act. Whether DOJ chases down three-developer scale stuff, or has only the staff for multi-zillion class bribes, I don't know.

If you are paying them to do something they're supposed to do but refuse to do in a timely manner, that may be legal. It's called a facilitating payment or grease payment, and is an exception to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

Ask a real lawyer, obviously.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#338

Post by phonon »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #10
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #8

India's obsession with paperwork is unceasing and baffling. Everything requires an application, even when everything can be done digitally. You need letters and stamps to get anything done. Case in point: the "company stamps" that are required for everything you do with your business. From getting a debit card to changing the maturity instructions for a corporate deposit, you need to sign your name AND stamp it with…

Countries with high paperwork and bureaucratic burden are famous for also being highly corrupt. This is probably not a coincidence. Likely all the excess paperwork makes it easier to hide what's really going on, easy to provide roadblocks for those who don't pay, and easier to generally hide bad activity in a sea of noise.

Japan being a notable exception.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#339

Post by cubancigar11 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #246
cubancigar11 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a popular misconception. Paperwork is basically created as part of job being done by the government employee. This employee is hired due to connections and the paperwork created to justify the job. The pointlessness makes people exert the tiniest amount of power they have, like reddit mods. The monetary corruption is more related to salary which is related to well being of economy. For example, during British…

Raj era ICS was much smaller, Congress and Nehru created a lot of the bureaucracy

You are, I am sorry to say, mistaken. The Raj era was huge. There is very old article (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1908/10/the-new...).

But the government is as complete a bureaucracy as that of Russia.

The British Raj kept creating more and more bureaucracy paid for taxes exacted by causing famines, increasing in frequency and intensity. This system was inherited by Nehru and Congress. They were socialists so they increased bureaucracy but they didn't increase corruption - independent India has not seen a famine caused by taxes even in the direst of times.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India (2020)

#340

Post by TheRealPomax »

> Yes, you need to obtain “permission” before you build any manufacturing structure on your own land with your own money.

I don't understand why this is phrased as incredulous. Are there countries where this isn't the case? Just because you own the land -which you don't, you merely have a title that grants you the exclusive, but limited, usage rights of that land- does not mean you are free to just build whatever you want?

That said, Indian paperwork is famous for being Futurama levels of bureaucracy with Balkan levels of bribery. It's why giant corporations just don't bother with India, and why small store owners just don't even bother: just run your business until they crack down, which they won't as long as you keep a low profile.

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