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Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

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Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#441

Post by Dylan16807 »

scarface74 wrote: post #437
Dylan16807 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now we've gone in a circle. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33365040 If the law mandates USB C, then it mandates 3 amps for cables.

It mandates a USB C connector . They weren’t smart enough to mandate that “all USB C cables sold in the EU must actually meet the standard”. Then you also have the opposite problem. If the USB cable supports higher wattage power delivery, some low wattage USB C devices like headphones won’t charge.

> It mandates a USB C connector. They weren’t smart enough to mandate that “all USB C cables sold in the EU must actually meet the standard”.

Then I don't know why you're spending so many posts purely about cables in complaint of this law. Cables have gone from unregulated to unregulated.

If your underlying argument is "this is in the right direction but they should have gone further", you are not coming across that way with all your other posts.

> Then you also have the opposite problem. If the USB cable supports higher wattage power delivery, some low wattage USB C devices like headphones won’t charge.

Do you mean like the thing with raspberry pis? That wasn't about wattage, their miswiring meant that any cable with a tag would fail.

Otherwise I don't see how that kind of failure is possible.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#442

Post by extraduder_ire »

hooverd wrote: post #81
xxpor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, people complain about NEMA all the time. It's objectively the worst commonly used socket+plug system from a safety perspective. It's somewhat mitigated by the common voltage being half of what the Europlug etc sees. RJ45 (akchually 8p8c) also has its issues: people complain about how easy it is to break off the stupid plastic tab all the time. There's proto-DRM in SFP connectors though, you're right. There's an E…

No argument there. The Europlug is another innovation stifling regulation though. We should allow developers/homebuilders to select the socket of their choice, even develop their own proprietary ones.

Is the europlug actually mandated or just common? I've seen a few different, sometimes incompatible, sockets in different mainland europe countries.

If I was in NA, I would want to use british plugs on my 240V stuff if it was legal though. And not just because I hate the soles of my feet.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#443

Post by ttepasse »

nvahalik wrote: post #219

> Joswiak also claimed that the proprietary Lightning cable and the USB-C cable would not exist if Apple had agreed to the EU original demand of using the older Micro USB charging cable which had poor reliability and could easily be damaged. So... what happens when USB-C no longer makes sense anymore? Will they have to keep using it no matter what? Wait for the law to change?

> So... what happens when USB-C no longer makes sense anymore? Will they have to keep using it no matter what? Wait for the law to change?

According to the amended Directive, the EU Commission should review it every few years and if I remember correctly the law gives the Commission delegated authority to change the annex for the law, where USB-C and USB-PD are specified. Meaning, when the industry want’s to change it, the industry, presumably the USB Implementor’s Forum, needs to go with their proposal for a better alternative to the EU Commission. Which is not unreasonable, I think.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#444

Post by scarface74 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #441
scarface74 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It mandates a USB C connector . They weren’t smart enough to mandate that “all USB C cables sold in the EU must actually meet the standard”. Then you also have the opposite problem. If the USB cable supports higher wattage power delivery, some low wattage USB C devices like headphones won’t charge.

> It mandates a USB C connector. They weren’t smart enough to mandate that “all USB C cables sold in the EU must actually meet the standard”. Then I don't know why you're spending so many posts purely about cables in complaint of this law. Cables have gone from unregulated to unregulated. If your underlying argument is "this is in the right direction but they should have gone further", you are not coming across that…

> Otherwise I don't see how that kind of failure is possible.

Don’t you just love the USB C “standard”?

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-my-headphones-only-charge-with-...

Just so you don’t think I’m choosing some no name headphones as an example

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00271328

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#445

Post by charlie0 »

danpalmer wrote: post #19

It's sad that it took legislation to make this happen, but I can see why. I worked in a pseudo-Apple-store during the height of the 30-pin dock connector and I sold so many cases, speaker docks, charging cables, and all sorts of weird accessories that were built for the 30-pin connector. Then Apple switched to Lightning. It was better in every. single. way. And yet people got burnt. There was so much hardware that wa…

Last year was the first time I've ever had a Mac product and I really liked it. It was also time for me to get a new phone. The only thing that stopped me from getting the iphone was their connector wasn't USBC. Seems trivial, but for someone brand new to the Apple ecosystem, it provided enough friction and cost them a sale. I might give them a shot a few years from now when it's time to replace my phone.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#446

Post by ianschmitz »

franciscop wrote: post #63
outcoldman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should start with the batteries first :D Every device in that smart home innovation comes with some battery that I have never seen before.

Power tools already have a standard, smart home is a totally different beast though, and AFAIK most items should use USB-C?

They most certainly do not. Each brand has their own battery platform.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#447

Post by scarface74 »

hot_gril wrote: post #431
scarface74 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: grab a random “standard USB C” cable. Now answer a few questions just by looking at it: - what wattage does is supper? - what data speed does it support? - will it support video over USB C? Why didn’t the EU in all of its technical brilliance at least attempt to come up with a minimum “standard”?

What wattage, enough to charge my phone. What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning. Video, never used it. EU wanted to break up Apple's proprietary control over the iPhone ports and create a charging standard, cause charging is the important part. Anyone can make a higher-spec USB-C cable without going to Apple, and chargers are uniform for all phones. Worth repeating that I don't agree wi…

> What wattage, enough to charge my phone

Maybe or maybe not. There are plenty of really low watt capable USB C cords that come with headphones for instance.

> What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning

That’s not true either. There are plenty of “power only” USB C cables.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#448

Post by Dylan16807 »

scarface74 wrote: post #447
hot_gril wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What wattage, enough to charge my phone. What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning. Video, never used it. EU wanted to break up Apple's proprietary control over the iPhone ports and create a charging standard, cause charging is the important part. Anyone can make a higher-spec USB-C cable without going to Apple, and chargers are uniform for all phones. Worth repeating that I don't agree wi…

> What wattage, enough to charge my phone Maybe or maybe not. There are plenty of really low watt capable USB C cords that come with headphones for instance. > What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning That’s not true either. There are plenty of “power only” USB C cables.

So your definition of standard USB C cable includes nonstandard USB C cables?

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#449

Post by scarface74 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #428
scarface74 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I like that the cables can get better over time Everything I mentioned has been part of the standard fir years. > But this is a charging standard and for charging all cables are the same for the vast majority of devices The purported goal is to “prevent ewaste”. How does it prevent ewaste if you still can’t depend on the cords working the way they should? > All the stuff that might break because I don't…

> The purported goal is to “prevent ewaste”. How does it prevent ewaste if you still can’t depend on the cords working the way they should? For charging, it's fine. > Is that the bar we set now? It’s no better than what came before? A charging standard shouldn't care about data except to avoid getting in the way, and it probably shouldn't mandate more expensive cables for devices that don't have data. Also USB C supp…

> because the point is the make everyone use the same thing

That’s kind of the point. Just because it has the same connector it’s not the “same thing”.

Re: Apple says iPhones will switch to USB-C chargers to comply with new EU law

#450

Post by scarface74 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #448
scarface74 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What wattage, enough to charge my phone Maybe or maybe not. There are plenty of really low watt capable USB C cords that come with headphones for instance. > What speed, don't really care but it's at least the same as Lightning That’s not true either. There are plenty of “power only” USB C cables.

So your definition of standard USB C cable includes nonstandard USB C cables?

Those are all part of the “standard” as far as the EU “mandate” is concerned and it does nothing to address the issue.
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