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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#271
post #169
post #3

All that effort and the best ARM Windows development machine is still "a VM on an Apple Silicon Mac".

My understanding is that it's not possible to legally get a license for Windows in that case, as there's no SKU for it. Has that changed? Otherwise it's nonviable at $DAYJOB,

What prevents you from using an existing not-hardware-bound license? Enterprise volume licenses should also work.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ace card is that they bought PA Semi and have a competent team to pull off what Qualcomm apparently can't.

Well, the Nuvia acquisition seems to indicate that at least Qualcomm wants to . might be some generations before we see their designs.

Lol, Qualcomm is Oracle of hardware world. Buying a company is a no way an indicator that they want to do anything. They haven't delivered a good SoC since Apple released A7.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#273
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that Microsoft did not put in the work to optimize for Arm like Apple did.

At least according to this related blog post[0] (and submission[1]), they've put in work, albeit not as thorough and effective as Rosetta 2. > To boost performance, we have added vendor-specific optimizations so your apps run well on a variety of Arm hardware. We have several runtime improvements to targeting server throughput (RPS) and latency. Seems largely focused on .NET 7 though[2]. [0] https://blogs.windows.com…

Windows 11 can run AMD64 applications on ARM64 through a JIT, similar to how Rosetta operates [0]. I don't know if anyone has tried to compare them in benchmarks though.

[0] - https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2020/12/10/introdu...

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#274
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first NES and Playstation were MASSIVE successes for their respective companies, as was the Gameboy. In fact, the NES is credited with single handedly putting an end to the video game crash of 1983. The Gameboy sold out in a matter of weeks and Nintendo managed to sell every single Gameboy that it produced for the course of its first two years. Here's an article about how massive of a success the original NES and…

>The first NES and Playstation were MASSIVE successes for their respective companies, as was the Gameboy. I never said they weren't successful, I said they were also mismanaged during development like you said about the xbox, because management at Nintendo did not believe in the product. >I have no idea where you got the idea that any of those products were mismanaged Documentaries and war stories on youtube rabit ho…

Can you please link to a Youtube video or article indicating that Nintendo management thought the Gameboy or NES would be a failure or that Sony thought that the Playstation would be a failure.

I am looking at some quick sources that I can find, and it looks like the complete opposite, that the management at Nintendo was very eager to develop a home video game console based on the success of their arcade games. They believed in the NES so much that when Atari bailed on its partnership agreement with them (due in no small part to the video game crash of 83), they went ahead and decided to do it alone.

Here is an article that was posted to HN awhile back that does a very deep dive into the development of the NES. It's an excerpt from the book "Console Wars" and it does not paint a picture at all like the one you're suggesting:

http://grantland.com/features/the-rise-of-nintendo-video-gam...

A relevant quote is:

"Yamauchi wanted Nintendo to aggressively get into the videogame business, which was really two separate businesses: home consoles and coin-operated arcade games. He saw the potential in these industries and took the necessary steps for Nintendo to enter both."

As an FYI, Yamauchi was the President of Nintendo.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#276
post #152

800$ in Canada, at that price point it’s impossible to justify buying it instead of an M1 Mac Mini for 100$ more as a general use machine, especially given the sorry state of Windows-ARM. Given it’s a dev kit companies won’t care about cost, but I can’t see many being sold to independent/small developers, the excitement just isn’t there.

I initially had the same reaction but the 900$ Mac Mini has only 8GB of memory, 256GB of storage and can only drive two displays, vs this which has 32GB of memory, 512GB of storage and can drive three displays.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#278
post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

Prefer 32GB than a better CPU. By the way When the fuck did 32GB become an entry requirement, I am so saddened by the crappy software and stacks that treats memory like an infinite resource

Being old enough to remember when 32K was generous space, memory is an infinite resource.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#280
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i3/i5 12 and 13 gen? Outside m1/m2 there isn't any chip that can be compared to i5 intel 13 gen especially for PC space [that is in the same price bracket]. (maybe some arm chips can get close to i3 12100f but you can get it for 90 usd and get good single core performance so im not sure if in this price point is even any arm alternative)

what's the incentive for a chip manufacturer to put out a better ARM chip (eg comparable to the Apple M1)? I don't know that world well, so my best guess is that the margins go to the OS manufacturers, so unless you have guaranteed commitment from MSFT for a given volume, and some sharing of the margin, it's too risky to invest in the R&D to make a better ARM chip. The market for x86 chips is large and known, so for…

Long term there is a huge market for server-oriented CPUs that can compete with Intel Xeon, which currently has a near monopoly in the server market. Note that a lot of companies are already working on this: Ampere (ARM), Amazon (Graviton3, etc.), and likely Nvidia, Rivos (RISC-V), etc.

The best of market ARM designs don't really compete head-to-head with Xeon right now, but there are still a ton of server applications where they make already make sense. As a simple example companies like Google and Facebook have hundreds of thousands of servers that are doing things like running memcached or running some application like D/GFS where the server is mostly just doing a lot of I/O and doesn't necessarily need really beefy single-threaded CPU performance.

Longer term obviously if there are ARM or RISC-V CPUs that can compete head-to-head with Xeon in terms of features and single threaded performance then that opens up pretty much the entire enterprise/server market.

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