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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#231

Post by mmis1000 »

lostgame wrote: post #168
mrweasel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Apple have the advantage of being able to tell consumers that if they want a new Mac, then they get no choice. They'll have to buy an M1 or M2. Despite of this Apple knew that M-series computers needed to be better than the previous Intel lineup, and noticeable so. An ARM based Windows computer isn't a bad idea, I just question if Microsoft is able to deliver on it. Picking the same manufacturer, who repeata…

>> An ARM based Windows computer isn't a bad idea, I just question if Microsoft is able to deliver on it. Microsoft has already executed and brutally failed with ARM in the form of the disastrous Surface RT/Windows RT. But, and more importantly. Two people with unlimited resources are running a race car race. One starts a year or two before the other. Even with unlimited resources; the other racer/team has unlimited…

I think the primary reason that windows rt failed totally is no software can run on it at all. Not only you can't run x86 software. You can't even download random executable and run it. It is basically killed by ms itself. It is always a mystery to me that why ms would expect user to buy a device that nearly run nothing.

It looks like they want to address this. But I wonder if they will succeed this time.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#232

Post by wvenable »

solarkraft wrote: post #118

Are they actually becoming serious about ARM all of a sudden or is this just a fluke? It speaks volumes that Visual Studio wasn't even available as an ARM version until now.

First they to make the 64bit version of Visual Studio for x86-64. It seems the ARM port was pretty fast after that.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#233

Post by sliken »

awill wrote: post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

M1 has 4 high performance cores called firestorm, and 4 energy efficient cores called icestorm. Same cores that are in the A14 which is in the Iphone 12.

Since then the A15 came out with some efficiency and performance improvements, it's in the M2 IPad and M2 MBA and presumably several future apple products.

The A16 has some efficiency and perfomance tweaks and is what's in the recently released iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max.

So sure, the M1 in the M1 mac mini might have more power, cooling, and cores than the iPhone 14 pro, but the cores are actually slower at the same clock. Sure a phone will hit thermal limits sooner than a SFF PC.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#234

Post by monocasa »

smoldesu wrote: post #219
thisarticle wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does it say Linux is officially supported?

The chip is having mainline Linux support merged with 5.20, according to Phoronix: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-5.20-SoCs-8cx-Gen3-Arm

I'd wait to hear if this board has Linux support. It might have a locked bootloader.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#235

Post by nightski »

taspeotis wrote: post #140
jstimpfle wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a list of things that are worse with 11? I had it pushed on one of my less frequently used devices and so far all that has been annoying has been the Explorer context menu which hides "less used" items (some of which I frequently need, of course) behind a "More" entry.

Personally I find Windows 11 fine although the decision to make the start bar only icons instead of icon + text is a bit bizarre in today’s trend towards (ultra)wide monitors.

I despise the fact that there is no right-click/context menu on the task bar. I use that frequently.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#236

Post by Damogran6 »

Sakos wrote: post #91
awill wrote: post #78

The difference here is that the M1 in the M1 mac mini is faster than Apple's phone SoC (the A16). The Qualcomm 8cx gen 3 (what a terrible name) in this machine is NOT faster than even Qualcomm's phone SoC (the 8 gen 1), let alone Apple's phone SoC. It's absurd to be selling a desktop PC that's weaker than a phone.

It's a chicken or the egg dilemma. Non-Apple ARM is too slow, so nobody wants Windows ARM, and nobody wants Windows ARM, so nobody is seriously working on consumer-targeted ARM. It will probably fail because Microsoft is generally bad at managing and marketing their hardware projects and coordinating with manufacturers and retail partners. Also, yeah, the pricing and performance is abysmal. But there is some sense to…

In a way, it's not much different than when they were porting Windows NT to Dec ALPHA. (But I suspect ARM has legs, where Alpha didn't)

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#238

Post by geodel »

blibble wrote: post #205
chinabot wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prefer 32GB than a better CPU. By the way When the fuck did 32GB become an entry requirement, I am so saddened by the crappy software and stacks that treats memory like an infinite resource

presumably they want it to be able to run Teams

Yeah, Where would computer industry be if physical collaboration with open office setup and online collaboration with teams/slack does not take place?

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#239

Post by Kranar »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #210
Kranar wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XBox is a great example of horrible mismanagement that cost Microsoft many billions of dollars, was almost abandoned, and went through a very rocky path to get to where it is today which is still frankly not that great of a position (it lags behind Switch and Playstation): https://www.shacknews.com/article/121384/last-one-at-the-tab... Don Mattrick almost tanked that entire product and it survives today because Phil…

>XBox is a great example of horrible mismanagement that cost Microsoft many billions of dollars Guess what, so was the first NES, and the first Play Station, the first Game Boy, etc. for their respective companies. Breaking into a new market, with a new product, in uncharted waters, with no prior experience, with no support from clueless executives who don't believe in the new product looking for any reason to stop y…

The first NES and Playstation were MASSIVE successes for their respective companies, as was the Gameboy. In fact, the NES is credited with single handedly putting an end to the video game crash of 1983. The Gameboy sold out in a matter of weeks and Nintendo managed to sell every single Gameboy that it produced for the course of its first two years.

Here's an article about how massive of a success the original NES and Gameboy were and how it revived Nintendo as a company:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/19/18295061/game-boy-history-...

I have no idea where you got the idea that any of those products were mismanaged or cost those companies enormous amounts of cash and in fact those specific examples are among the most successful product launches in video game history.

>The Xbox 360 sold 85 million units, one of the best selling consoles of all time.

The XBox 360 is the best selling console from Microsoft and ranks 9th among all consoles behind the Playstation, Playstation 2, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Switch, Gameboy, and Wii.

Read into that what you will.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#240

Post by layer8 »

jmrm wrote: post #215

This is pretty interesting. I'm just imaging a future with inexpensive Windows ARM machines, passively-cooled, and running in most of the offices of your country. With most of the important Microsoft software already compiled to ARM, and with those kits available to developers to do compile theirs at a competitive price, I won't doubt that future could be possible.

There are huge amounts of existing x86 software in use, including Office add-ins, Explorer extensions, and COM dependencies in general, that won’t be recompiled to ARM. The only way ARM would take over is if compatibility with existing binaries is maintained (which is very difficult if not impossible for x86 DLLs within ARM-based applications), and if their execution remains sufficiently performant.
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