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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#361

Post by imiric »

abenga wrote: post #334
imiric wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be the case, but is there an alternative with a similar feature set? The latest GNOME versions are even buggier, and when it does work, it feels like a toy project compared to KDE. It's baffling to me that it's been years since the v3 controversy, yet the project still doesn't feel as mature and polished as KDE Plasma. All v2 forks also feel like someone's hobby project to bring disparate tools together, r…

> The latest GNOME versions are even buggier, and when it does work, it feels like a toy project compared to KDE. This is an interesting viewpoint. My ideal DE is one that is "invisible", so to speak, and I've found that GNOME comes closest to it. I want to launch whatever program I'm using and focus on it's window. KDE has too much chrome, too many elements, so many options. It feels too "busy" to me. Ditto its apps…

That's fair, I can see how KDE is busier. But if I wanted to use a DE that's "invisible", I wouldn't pick GNOME either. All the animations, for one, would be too distracting, though I suppose you can turn these off.

Like I said, I use a WM-only setup for productive work to avoid any distractions, but when I want to consume content, connect peripherals and prioritize ease of use over efficiency, then I prefer to use a more polished DE. I enjoy KDE precisely because it gives me all the options to customize it however I like, so I prefer having access to all the knobs to do so, which GNOME purposefuly hides. Other features like desktop widgets are a nice bonus.

KDE is not perfect; it sometimes freezes on me, which might be specific to my hardware or due to an unrelated driver or Xorg issue. This is why I wanted to know if there are alternatives with the same feature set. GNOME, unfortunately, isn't it.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#363

Post by asddubs »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

does arch still sometimes just break requiring manual intervention on updates? that's what turned me off last I used it, especially coming back to a machine you haven't used in a while trying to update it, but that must've been over half a decade by now so I don't know how things changed

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#364

Post by asddubs »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #328
thomaslord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Also, there is the funny thing that when you updated to 22.04 and Firefox it's replaced by the snap version, you lose access to your previous Firefox account on the computer! The account isn't deleted... If you remove the snap version and install the normal version from a PPA, you get back your account with all the settings.

they seem to have fixed that at least. I had the same problem with a computer I updated immediately, but not with one that I waited a bit on. Incidentally you can fix this by copying your .mozilla directory in the correct place in the snap directory in your home folder

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#365

Post by asddubs »

echelon wrote: post #190
thomaslord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

I personally hope AppImage wins over snap, it seems to be the best of its class, and isn't so centralized. It would still need to be paired with a package manager for updates, of course

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#366

Post by asddubs »

pessimizer wrote: post #71
bxparks wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use snap. Doing "a lot more work" to install an OS does not sound appealing.

Mint is preconfigured Ubuntu that avoids a few user-hostile choices. Techies talking about choosing a Linux seem to careen between Ubuntu/Mint dead-simple consumer stuff and then the other way to Arch, when they decide that they're too expert for Ubuntu (then to Macs, after they have one very rough day with Arch.) Debian is nice, and simple. Takes a little bit of configuring to taste, but configuring the next Debian…

last i checked, mint (unlike LMDE) just expects you to do major version upgrades by reinstalling, which is pretty annoying.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#367

Post by asddubs »

lolinder wrote: post #276
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jump to Debian. It has always worked towards users' interests, and probably will continue doing that because pretty much all developers are volunteers and are running a democratically driven development process. I never understood why Ubuntu is so popular because it's 99.99% Debian, and only gives you a handful of things on top of that: predictable release schedule (which is a two-edged sword if you think about it),…

> proprietary drivers out of the box This is it for me. Ubuntu works out of the box as well as Windows does with any hardware I've chosen. From what I've heard, the same can't be said for most other distros. I use Linux because I like being able to tweak my experience easily, but I do not enjoy spending time fiddling with drivers. I'd rather use Ubuntu and disable the things I don't like than use something that's mor…

AFAIK debian recently voted to include proprietary drivers in their installer by default. Don't know all the details off hand though

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#368

Post by acomjean »

everybodyknows wrote: post #349
acomjean wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to. They sell computers (with Ubuntu or Pop!_OS). I'm at least the 2nd one to get one at my work (that I know of). They're not "cheap", and if you know what they are and what you are doing you could just buy a similar model for a bit less and install linux on that.(they're rebadged clevos, I've replaced a fan on one..) But if you buy from them it comes with linux pre-installed (yeah!) which saves time and s…

Clevo is apparently German, whereas System76 say they're based in Colorado. https://clevo-computer.com/en/ https://system76.com/about Wonder how the hardware supply chain works? Aside: For a little over $1200, you can get a "desktop" with ECC RAM. And not have to assemble and test it yourself. Sweet.

Its actually made by a different company also named clevo in in China (TW)

https://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=1609&lang=en

Its a little wierd but they seems to exist only to sell to resellers, although clevo-computer.com seems to order a whole bunch. in my case the "clevo" id is on the sticker on the back (along with a lot of other info). I think System 76 specs the parts the work with linux and orders the machines that way. I have no idea how the supply chain works in this case.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#369

Post by eagsalazar2 »

funklute wrote: post #360
eagsalazar2 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jeeze please stop! e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example" in the very broadest interpretation. Why? Because way back when people who wrote those things did agree on a specific and distinct meaning for each, a lot of other people who didn't share that understanding co-opted those abbreviations to mean "for example". That interpretation has now exploded in popularity. At this poi…

> e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example" It seems you live on a completely different planet to me... "i.e." simply does not mean "for example", and no one who has a good, academic level of English would ever think so.

I'm not saying anything about what I do or don't know about the meaning of i.e. vs e.g., I'm just saying stand in front of any mall in America and poll people as they go in:

(Q1) "Do you, even occasionally, ever use e.g. or i.e. when speaking or writing?" Almost all people will answer yes.

(Q2) "Can you correctly define these abbreviations and explain their correct usage?" 1 in 10 will answer correctly.

(Q3) You (the interviewer), use one or the other in a sentence, ask people to correctly paraphrase your meaning to see if, in spite of their lack of academic understanding, they are still perfectly capable of understanding you. 9 in 10 will answer correctly.

This, almost by definition, represents linguistic evolution. And that is ok. I would go so far as to argue that "academic level of English" should be rephrased as "academic style of English" and that that stye has zero relationship with any notion of "correctness" at all. Telling the 9/10 from Q2 that they are "wrong" is, again, very misguided and pretty jerky honestly.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#370

Post by funklute »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #369
funklute wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example" It seems you live on a completely different planet to me... "i.e." simply does not mean "for example", and no one who has a good, academic level of English would ever think so.

I'm not saying anything about what I do or don't know about the meaning of i.e. vs e.g., I'm just saying stand in front of any mall in America and poll people as they go in: (Q1) "Do you, even occasionally, ever use e.g. or i.e. when speaking or writing?" Almost all people will answer yes. (Q2) "Can you correctly define these abbreviations and explain their correct usage?" 1 in 10 will answer correctly. (Q3) You (the…

> Telling the 9/10 from Q2 that they are "wrong" is, again, very misguided and pretty jerky honestly.

I disagree. I do see your point about linguistic evolution. But I don't think it applies here.

In my native tongue, the word for "and" and the word for "to" (the infinitive marker) are very similar. As a result, tons of people mix the two up. But probably not even the most progressive and liberal linguist would agree that this represents linguistic evolution. It is pretty much universally understood to be symptomatic of a poor technical understanding of the language.

I think the same applies to "i.e." vs "e.g.". They are both used predominantly in academic style or level (whichever you prefer) of English. And in that context, their respective meanings are often quite important for understanding the precise details of a text.

I don't think that paraphrasing a text is a good test here btw - even with an A1 or A2 level of English you can get a pretty good rough understanding. Besides, paraphrasing often loses the precise meaning, which I would argue is to answer incorrectly. Logical hierarchies and implications really do matter when it comes to conveying information, and if not everyone understands the subtleties of the language, the go-to response should be "more education is needed" rather than "let's give up and have all words mean the same thing".

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