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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#351

Post by Arnavion »

asdajksah2123 wrote: post #256
throwup wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland There's a particular irony to this statement. Before adopting Wayland, Canonical tried to do their own thing with Mir[1]. Years later they gave up and reluctantly adopted Wayland. Their investment in Snap rhymes with this. Snap is an inferior competitor to Flatpak, and in the end it's likely the dust will settle for Snap the same way it did for Mir—i…

I don't think Snap is an inferior solution, as much as Canonical is trying to put Snap where it doesn't belong. AFAICT, Snap is a pretty good solution for server side apps. This is pure speculation (and I don't even know if the timelines line up), but I suspect Canonical developed Snap for server apps, but something made it economically non viable (maybe the popularity of Docker?) and so they now needed to generate m…

"Server apps" can just be systemd services with isolation configured to your liking. Even if it's necessary that the service include some arbitrary subset of userspace, that can still be done with systemd portable services.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#352

Post by ttyprintk »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #228
remram wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this weird issue where holding volume down crashes the entire desktop . It is rather strange. No problem with other keys, no problem tapping volume down rather than holding it, no instability anywhere else that I've noticed. It is the strangest thing.

Please update if it turns out you discovered negative sound.

> A system with a truly negative temperature on the Kelvin scale is hotter than any system with a positive temperature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#353

Post by addicted »

smallerfish wrote: post #36
CoastalCoder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I should give Pop OS a try... I'm a big fan: it's like Ubuntu, but with much of Canonical's divisive changes reverted, and with a few other improvements. I switched from Ubuntu to Pop!_OS a few releases back when I got a System76 computer. (I also use it on my Lenovo laptop.)

I wish Pop OS would tackle KDE. It's a much better DE (particularly if you like to customize), but there are very few (if any) distributions which have an opinionated tuned experience out of the box.

My prediction is that Gnome is gonna leave KDE in the dust.

GTK 4 along with Gnome’s decision to limit customization is a massive step forward IMO.

Gnome will be able to build a consistent and stable desktop and developers building apps using GTK will not be bombarded with bugs caused by random user customizations, which are usually hard to reproduce, hard to debug, hard to fix, affect a small number of users, and are likely simply frustrating to deal with for devs.

But, maybe that’s not the right choice. Great thing about Linux is that if that’s the case Gnome will wither away and KDE (or other DEs) will quickly surpass it.

My bet is on Gnome however.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#354

Post by fireant »

derefr wrote: post #211

Lot of people here with opinions about using Ubuntu as a desktop OS. Seemingly nobody here with opinions about Ubuntu as a server OS. Strange for a bunch of startup people who ship their SaaS backends on Linux servers.

Pretty strange isn't it. I would think that headless server is #1 deployment for ubuntu, but out of 4 headline features only one is for this usecase and it's for a different product by Cannonical. Boring is good, but is there actually nothing interesting happening?

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#355

Post by mekster »

jonesnc wrote: post #35
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I'm on Ubuntu Server 22.04, and I've never had to use Snap. Is it exclusively a Desktop thing?

- bitcoin-core

- bottom (Modern top)

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#356

Post by maccam94 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #302
midoridensha wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yup, you need to shutdown firefox, open a terminal, run ‘sudo snap refresh’, wait for it to complete, then re-open firefox. No, you don't need to do this at all. You need to shut down Firefox, open a terminal, run 'sudo snap remove firefox', then 'sudo apt install firefox', wait for it to complete, then re-open Firefox. (I might be missing a step here)

The step you're missing is to add the Firefox PPA. Ubuntu's Firefox deb is just a Snap installation script.

You also need to futz with apt repo priorities to force it to install the deb package instead of the snap installer -_-

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#357

Post by xorcist »

compsciphd wrote: post #45
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I used to defend snap with the idea that it makes sense for some apps, i.e. "firefox" where updating firefox while its running is bad news. Except, snap can't update applications while they are running! i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it,…

If it was that simple, why wouldn't the deb package work like this? There is no technical reason a new version of a software can't execute in parallel to the previous.

Firefox can't do that. The simplest reason being that it is stateful and keeps records of history, bookmarks and whatnot which not only can't be accessed concurrently, but the specific storage model chosen can only be forward migrated. Accessing this data from two different versions of Firefox would inevitably lead to corrupt data, even when concurrency is not an issue.

That's just the obvious reason with profiles. But there are also various other issues where Firefox interacts with the plugin system and other external data. All of these could probably be fixed, but it would require a radical redesign of the software which right now no one has stepped up to do.

The least problematic method of using Firefox on Linux for most users is probably the official tarball. It's the trivial method of unpacking a software and running it from the destination folder. It has implications for freeness and DRM, and the obvious problems bundled dependencies bring, but Firefox is unusually well maintained software with the manpower to make it work.

And containerization or producification on top of Firefox will only make it more complicated and worse supported than upstream is.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#358

Post by stevekemp »

severino wrote: post #333
stevekemp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run Debian on all my systems, and to be honest firefox is something I always maintain separately. /opt/firefox contains the latest binary download from the official site. The application is one that updates frequently enough that the gain is worthwhile.

How do you handle updates? Do you download the new version from the official site from time to time and replace the old one? I know Firefox can "auto-update" itself but I guess it won't (or shouldn't) be allowed to modify things under "/opt" when running as a user process.

Yes, I have /opt/firefox-1.2.3 with the various binary downloads, and I have a symlink /opt/firefox which gets updated to point to the latest release.

I tend to see new releases announced on lwn.net, and this site, so I just make sure I download it a day or two later so that I'm always current.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#359

Post by compsciphd »

xorcist wrote: post #357
compsciphd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to defend snap with the idea that it makes sense for some apps, i.e. "firefox" where updating firefox while its running is bad news. Except, snap can't update applications while they are running! i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it,…

If it was that simple, why wouldn't the deb package work like this? There is no technical reason a new version of a software can't execute in parallel to the previous. Firefox can't do that. The simplest reason being that it is stateful and keeps records of history, bookmarks and whatnot which not only can't be accessed concurrently, but the specific storage model chosen can only be forward migrated. Accessing this d…

simple binaries yes, firefox installs a whole lots of dynamically read stuff that is specific to the version installed (was more of an issue in the xul days, but I think still exists).

i.e. you install a new firefox, the data on disk (i.e. file xyz) is no longer what the firefox version running expects and bad things happen. It could cache everything in memory (I guess) and never have to read anything from disk, after it starts up (relative to it, cache/cookies in local profile shouldn't matter in regards to disk).

so when you update the deb you are replacing file 'xyz' and old xyz no longer exists (as opposed to unlinking and replacing "/usr/bin/firefox" as even though unlinked it will still exist (for paging purposes) until every execution of it terminates and only then will it actually be removed from the file system.

this is where containerization can help on a "multi user" system, if everyone ran firefox in a container, every time they started it fresh, they would get the most up to date copy installed (in a non "multi user" setting, its less important, but can still have some value). (quotes because I mean multiple simultaneous desktop graphical desktop users, which if we're honest, most desktop linux users aren't doing).

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#360

Post by funklute »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #283
Jenk wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polite FYI: When a statement has many examples it is correct to use "e.g.," which is an abbreviation of _exempli gratia_, which in turn is Latin for "for example." For example: There are many emotions a person may feel, e.g., happiness. When a statement has only one logical conclusion it is correct to use "i.e.," which is the abbreviation of _id est_ which in turn is Latin for "that is." For example: It was the same…

jeeze please stop! e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example" in the very broadest interpretation. Why? Because way back when people who wrote those things did agree on a specific and distinct meaning for each, a lot of other people who didn't share that understanding co-opted those abbreviations to mean "for example". That interpretation has now exploded in popularity. At this poi…

> e.g. and i.e. both have come to interchangeably and loosely mean "for example"

It seems you live on a completely different planet to me... "i.e." simply does not mean "for example", and no one who has a good, academic level of English would ever think so.

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