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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#111

Post by kolanos »

Jtsummers wrote: post #67
JamesBarney wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S. you don't have to prove everything you say. It's pretty hard to demonstrate defamation, UK is much looser about what classifies as defamation. Hans would pretty much have to demonstrate someone else knowingly lied or was extremely negligent with regard to the truth . Which will be very difficult.

As a non-lawyer I had to do a bit of googling to get to the phrase I was trying to recall, but here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_malice . Actual malice: > The constitutional guarantees require, we think, a Federal rule that prohibits a public official from recovering damages for a defamatory falsehood relating to his official conduct unless he proves that the statement was made with 'actual malice'—tha…

That appears to be scope to public officials?

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#112

Post by faeriechangling »

nilespotter wrote: post #104
mellosouls wrote: post #22

I don't know what the right way for him to fight back is, but this is a teenager who's made a few mistakes and in disproportionate response has been steamrolled by some of the biggest forces in chess - which could have had quite terrible mental health consequences for some - so I'm glad he has found an avenue for redress, however it pans out. He's owed a massive apology by them.

> which could have had quite terrible mental health consequences for some God people are so fragile these days.

Yeah totally these fragile snowflakes crying "boohoo I lost my career that I had been working on for my entire life and people harass me whenever I appear in public and call me a sham :..("

All you need to maintain your mental health is a good bottle of whisky and a stiff upper lip!

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#113

Post by SilkRoadie »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

From everything said about Hans the thing that sticks out to me the most is his analysed centipawn loss over all his games. Typically, as someone improves, both their loss per move and loss-variance falls. For hans, there is limited improvement over time and a high variance in the quality of his moves. He effectively has played at a 2700 level for a couple of years... This seems to be unusal compared to compariable pros.

I have listened to some his interviews recently and he talks extensively about engine analysed lines. He talks about avoiding lines he hasn't analysed or is uncertain on. I wouldn't be surprised if he has optimised his development on engine analysis. It would explain a high number of highly accurute games. It would also explain the variance in his play where he forced into unknown lines.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#114

Post by SomeBoolshit »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #102
neaden wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is most of these peoples lives. Hans has talked about how basically all he does is study chess, play chess, and eat take out food. He doesn't really have any non chess basked skills.

That's great, but if for some reason I would lose the ability to make a living through my usual means then nobody would defend me. All I would get is "get your ass and go work [in McD/whatever]". It is similar to the physical sports - after your career is ended (especially if abruptly from an injury) you just go and work like everyone else .

This depends on the exact circumstances of how your career was ended.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#115

Post by Jtsummers »

kolanos wrote: post #111
Jtsummers wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-lawyer I had to do a bit of googling to get to the phrase I was trying to recall, but here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_malice . Actual malice: > The constitutional guarantees require, we think, a Federal rule that prohibits a public official from recovering damages for a defamatory falsehood relating to his official conduct unless he proves that the statement was made with 'actual malice'—tha…

That appears to be scope to public officials?

And public figures.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#117

Post by faeriechangling »

mellosouls wrote: post #22

I don't know what the right way for him to fight back is, but this is a teenager who's made a few mistakes and in disproportionate response has been steamrolled by some of the biggest forces in chess - which could have had quite terrible mental health consequences for some - so I'm glad he has found an avenue for redress, however it pans out. He's owed a massive apology by them.

Not if they're right.

If they're right and he faced severe mental health consequences as a result of people correctly pointing out he has cheated for pride and money, in the words of the great Ben Finegold all I can say is...

The truth hurts.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#118

Post by woodruffw »

Ekaros wrote: post #86
woodruffw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get that number from? I can't find any source online that substantiates it.

https://mixergy.com/interviews/chess-com-with-erik-allebest/ Transcript have them over 50, but under 100m it seems.

That's much more than I expected. That being said, it's not really the same as Jones: chess.com's revenue comes from a paid service, one that's basically orthogonal to any support they've lent to the cheating accusations. This is in contrast to InfoWars, where a significant income driver was Jones's repeated defamations.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#119

Post by themitigating »

neaden wrote: post #83
themitigating wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The velocity is the issue not the skill level. If I never bowled in my life, started, and two weeks later claimed I was getting 270 or higher on a consistent basis you wouldn't say "well there are pro bowelers his age that get similar scores "

The problem is Hans is still playing OTB at a 2700ish level. If Hans is managing to cheat in OTB chess with so many eyes on him, with all the security measures in place, and doing it so he's able to fool all of the anti-cheating statistical analyses, then honestly he should just be robbing banks or something because he could make way more money with those skills.

Robbing a bank is high risk and illegal. Developing a cheating method for some competitive game sounds clever

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#120

Post by moralestapia »

NickC25 wrote: post #92

The guy has admitted to cheating in the past, to make money. Basically he said that if his rating was above X, he could make more money streaming. Chess.com put out a massive publication proving he cheated a hell of a lot more than "once or twice when he was younger". Because if he's not cheating, he's literally the prodigal child of AlphaZero and Bobby Fischer and should be crowned the GOAT immediately. Some of his…

>proving he cheated [...]

Sorry I missed the part where there was a proof. Could you pinpoint to it?

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