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Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

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Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#101

Post by hugocbp »

svrtknst wrote: post #98

Is it normal for these suits to be so... salty? in their formulations. I've never read one before, but a lot of the wordings are pretty hilarious. > Carlsen, having solidifed his position as the "King of Chess", believes that when it comes to chess, he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. > On September 4, 2022, Niemann soundly defeated Carlsen during an in-person game > Notably, this was not the first time…

As an "ex" lawyer, you can see some pretty blunt sentences wrapped within otherwise "polite" and formal language in lawsuits... But this...

This actually reads like a thriller. Very interesting (and refreshing) to see this kind of structure in a high-profile lawsuit.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#102

Post by justsomehnguy »

neaden wrote: post #72
saxonww wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His chess career. He most certainly has a wealth of other opportunities, and I tend to think of these chess grandmaster types as very capable of being very good at a lot of other things.

Chess is most of these peoples lives. Hans has talked about how basically all he does is study chess, play chess, and eat take out food. He doesn't really have any non chess basked skills.

That's great, but if for some reason I would lose the ability to make a living through my usual means then nobody would defend me. All I would get is "get your ass and go work [in McD/whatever]".

It is similar to the physical sports - after your career is ended (especially if abruptly from an injury) you just go and work like everyone else.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#103

Post by [deleted] »

svrtknst wrote: post #98

Is it normal for these suits to be so... salty? in their formulations. I've never read one before, but a lot of the wordings are pretty hilarious. > Carlsen, having solidifed his position as the "King of Chess", believes that when it comes to chess, he can do whatever he wants and get away with it. > On September 4, 2022, Niemann soundly defeated Carlsen during an in-person game > Notably, this was not the first time…

[deleted]

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#104

Post by nilespotter »

mellosouls wrote: post #22

I don't know what the right way for him to fight back is, but this is a teenager who's made a few mistakes and in disproportionate response has been steamrolled by some of the biggest forces in chess - which could have had quite terrible mental health consequences for some - so I'm glad he has found an avenue for redress, however it pans out. He's owed a massive apology by them.

> which could have had quite terrible mental health consequences for some

God people are so fragile these days.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#105

Post by drexlspivey »

2bitencryption wrote: post #44

Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…

Last time Magnus lost a classical game with white was in 2018

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#106

Post by threatofrain »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #70
rob74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if he's not innocent, proving that he cheated in a way that will hold up in court might be very difficult...

Well, perhaps then Magnus and Chess.com shouldn't have tried to deplatform him? Turns out, in civil matters what you say can bite you in the ass. Who knew.

I'd note that Chess.com prefers to deal with things privately and would've been quiet about this had Hans not publicly used Chess.com's brand to bolster his own credibility, essentially saying that Chess.com vouches for him. Then Chess.com asked him to retract his words but Hans refused.

This is ultimately led to the WSJ article.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#107

Post by xzel »

NickC25 wrote: post #92

The guy has admitted to cheating in the past, to make money. Basically he said that if his rating was above X, he could make more money streaming. Chess.com put out a massive publication proving he cheated a hell of a lot more than "once or twice when he was younger". Because if he's not cheating, he's literally the prodigal child of AlphaZero and Bobby Fischer and should be crowned the GOAT immediately. Some of his…

Or just delay the live stream instead? There’s a whole lot of hyperbole in your comments. He definitely cheated in online play as chess.com and Hans himself has said. Don’t think there’s been any proof of OTB cheating so far and his OTB play seems to be pretty realistic at this point.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#108

Post by mannykannot »

neaden wrote: post #83
themitigating wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The velocity is the issue not the skill level. If I never bowled in my life, started, and two weeks later claimed I was getting 270 or higher on a consistent basis you wouldn't say "well there are pro bowelers his age that get similar scores "

The problem is Hans is still playing OTB at a 2700ish level. If Hans is managing to cheat in OTB chess with so many eyes on him, with all the security measures in place, and doing it so he's able to fool all of the anti-cheating statistical analyses, then honestly he should just be robbing banks or something because he could make way more money with those skills.

With regard to having many eyes on him, that would make it easier for a confederate to be inconspicuous.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#109

Post by Kranar »

gretch wrote: post #12
neaden wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, not a lawyer but reading this the damage and the language (things like calling Magnus "King of Chess") seem pretty extreme.

Not a lawyer but I’ve been in lawsuits on all sides. It’s the general recommended practice. The number can only go down, never up, so you ask for all that you can. It does have -some- sense if you think about it: this is a young kid with a whole career ahead of him. Because of this accusation, his career is pretty much over. Since he could have been one of the best (as demonstrated by beating magnus) he would have ma…

>The number can only go down, never up, so you ask for all that you can.

This is false. A jury can absolutely award more than what the plaintiff seeks, and the judge can increase it even more than what a jury awards.

I mean one of the most famous civil cases, the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit, is an example of the jury awarding significantly more than what the plaintiff sought. For a recent example is the Alex Jones lawsuit where the plaintiff's sought a combined total of 300 million dollars but were awarded almost 1 billion dollars.

Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura

#110

Post by treis »

foepys wrote: post #75
treis wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His performance at the US chess championship with strict anti-cheating measures in place proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he's as good as his rating. This whole "improved too fast" as proof of cheating is nonsense. He might have still cheated to beat Magnus but there's no proof.

As ridiculous as it sounds, did the US chess championship explicitly check to prevent the vibrating buttplug that has been jokingly thrown around as a theory? It's an honest question. I didn't follow this closely and don't know whether a metal detector could find metal inside a human body.

Games were on a 30 minute broadcast delay with no in person audience. Vibrating butt plug works for receive but can't think of a plausible way for Hans to send the moves out.
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