Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 370 posts

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#91

Post by bornfreddy »

stevekemp wrote: post #21
severino wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

I run Debian on all my systems, and to be honest firefox is something I always maintain separately. /opt/firefox contains the latest binary download from the official site. The application is one that updates frequently enough that the gain is worthwhile.

This. The packages make sense for the apps that don't change frequently, but browsers don't match this description.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#92

Post by tannhaeuser »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #51
smashed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first encounter with snaps was launching gcalc, the basic built-in calculator app. At some point after an update, launching that app would take multiple seconds. How could the most basic gtk app be so slow to launch. Investigating further, I found the update had transformed the normal gcalc package into a snap, probably just to prove how great snaps could be for desktop apps? What a bad way to introduce your lates…

My last Kubuntu update (to 22.04) broke because, I think, I'd disabled snaps and the update required snap installs (including Firefox). The update had a "install snap version of Firefox" stage with the only option being OK/Yes ... so install broke. They were so up themselves that they removed the option to cancel snap install despite it not being for essential elements of the OS; I had to kill them installer. My firs…

Tested Kubuntu after frustration with gnome 3+ and over a decade on Ubuntu, but was very disappointed. Someone more knowledgable than me strongly recommended KDE Neon (Ubuntu LTS-based distro by KDE themselves) over Kubuntu. Me, I figured I don't need K apps and a full-fledged desktop environment; ended up going back to Mac OS for now.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#93

Post by yamtaddle »

zekrioca wrote: post #89
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I second this. I understand how hard it may be to maintain software these days, and that’s the whole point of snap, but the way it is implemented seems broken. It can simply break the whole system, it is like it uses one huge semaphore for all ‘transactions’ it commits in the ‘snap database’ (whatever it is) and if the transaction doesn’t complete, the whole system stalls. Only recourse is reboot. Don’t get me wrong,…

Last time I poked at Desktop Linux I tried all three of the major solutions for this, and the only one I could tolerate was AppImage, but its ecosystem seemed a bit weak and its official (I think?) site & repo were... not confidence-inspiring.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#94

Post by ixtenu »

nsteel wrote: post #46
aliqot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me start by saying Debian rolling release is the truth. That being said, I worry about the archaic community and contributor-tooling behind debian to be a barrier that will lead to its demise though. Makes me sad, but it is what it is. We are all getting old, and to us this interface looks normal, but to new people and those making the apps that the kids depend on, it looks like a shitshow of antiquated code. Nob…

> Make non-free the default Didn't they just vote to do this?

No, the recent change [0] was to add non-free firmware to the official installer (instead of relegating it to a separate unofficial installer). GP, however, was talking about the apt repository: the non-free apt repository is disabled by default. This hasn't changed and is unlikely to ever change. The non-free apt repository be enabled via a trivial /etc/apt/sources.list edit.

[0]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Non-Free-Firmware-Resul...

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#95

Post by pmontra »

mkurz wrote: post #30
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Same here. Ubuntu user since the beginning (2004). Switched to Arch half a year ago, will never look back. I don't understand why Ubuntu tries hard to scare away users from what used to be a solid OS with things like Mir, Unity, snap,... Even now the modified Gnome it comes with by default. I don't get it.

I think that they are looking for a way to make money. A snap app store managed by them could be a source of cash. I'm still on 20.04 and maybe I'll switch to Debian or PopOS. I need to find the time to experiment. I'll buy a second SSD and dual boot.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#96

Post by nrabulinski »

lvass wrote: post #43
stabbles wrote: post #19

I upgraded from Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 recently, and am experiencing issues where Firefox feels sluggish and X hangs for a second when I type in the terminal too quickly. Makes me wanna move away from Ubuntu. Also the idea of these major updates where the package manager mutates half the filesystem for 30 minutes straight sounds like a super brittle procedure, and snaps seem to address this, except that it feels wrong…

If you just want to install packages, nix-env is really simple.

Which, in my opinion, completely defeats the whole purpose of using NixOS. The last thing I want is a bunch of ad-hoc changes to my reproducible environment setup

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#97

Post by wooque »

psanford wrote: post #88
wooque wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't why people make so much fuss about snap. Just purge snap and stop complaining. I did this when I run Ubuntu. Ubuntu still is offers pretty polished and reliable OS that is easy to install and has most third-party support.

Because more and more things are only packaged as snaps.

Only Firefox is shipped as snap on default install.

But Firefox packaged by Ubuntu was always gimped as they didn't enable certain optimizations like PGO/LTO so official tar.gz from Mozilla was superior anyway. (They fixed this recently for snap). I think it's similar for Chromium.

So I didn't use snaps and I never been in situation that I needed to use snap.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#98

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Canonical really showed their colors with Snap I think. The base concept is obviously one desired by many users, as evidenced by the existence of alternatives like Flatpak and AppImage which both(?) predate it, not to mention ROX AppDirs, GNUStep Application Bundles, and a few others.

But Canonical insists on their own implementation which is entirely controlled by them. Only they have a Snap repo, they follow the hated Windows model of forced updates, etc.

Someday I think Ubuntu will have to give up Snaps to remain relevant and switch to (probably) Flatpak, but they're going to lose a lot of users in the mean time.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#99

Post by pmontra »

jonesnc wrote: post #35
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I'm on Ubuntu Server 22.04, and I've never had to use Snap. Is it exclusively a Desktop thing?

The letsencrypt certbot package has been a snap for a long time. It's their recommended choice even on Debian https://certbot.eff.org/

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#100

Post by yamtaddle »

lvass wrote: post #42
aliqot wrote: post #28

Ubuntu seems to be doing a speedrun of Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

More like continuously trying to reinvent the wheel and giving up.

They're trying to answer or get ahead of Red Hat but failing every time. Systemd beat Upstart, RH-captured Gnome beat Unity (and helped ensure Systemd was the easiest way to go for a general-purpose desktop distro, in the process), Wayland beat Mir, and Flatpack may not win but Snap sure as hell isn't gonna.
Post reply on HN