I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…
I'm on Ubuntu Server 22.04, and I've never had to use Snap. Is it exclusively a Desktop thing?
Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#42Ubuntu seems to be doing a speedrun of Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#43I upgraded from Ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 recently, and am experiencing issues where Firefox feels sluggish and X hangs for a second when I type in the terminal too quickly. Makes me wanna move away from Ubuntu. Also the idea of these major updates where the package manager mutates half the filesystem for 30 minutes straight sounds like a super brittle procedure, and snaps seem to address this, except that it feels wrong…
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#44I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…
Btw I used Arch , when I had time and tinkering with software was still pleasurable( I could do a full dual boot install without any documentation in one hour but this kind of stuff displease me this days)
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#45I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…
Except, snap can't update applications while they are running!
i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it, and then you can restart firefox.
This has to be one of the most idiotic design decision ever made by a containerized application system showing the designers don't understand containerization at all.
one of the primary points of containerization is the ability to have multiple copies of an application running in parallel using different "application images". One should be able to upgrade (i.e. install a new image in parallel to the old one) without disrupting existing execution environments.
Basically all firefox has to do is
1) if a container is running for the current user, execute firefox in its context
2) if no container is running for the current user, create a new container
3) every so often, garbage collect old images that don't have containers running for them.
these concepts are so simple, even docker basically does it!
and that's my rant for the day.
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same, but I went with Debian as I wanted to stay in the .deb world.
Let me start by saying Debian rolling release is the truth. That being said, I worry about the archaic community and contributor-tooling behind debian to be a barrier that will lead to its demise though. Makes me sad, but it is what it is. We are all getting old, and to us this interface looks normal, but to new people and those making the apps that the kids depend on, it looks like a shitshow of antiquated code. Nob…
Didn't they just vote to do this?
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, setting up arch for the first time takes time. For newbie users it is definitely not appealing process, and also I would not recommend it. It's not a long process, but you do everything yourself and all this in the terminal (no GUI installer). I learned a lot about linux when I decided to try Arch. And as OP, I also never looked back :)
My experience with Arch (which I tried after I'd used Linux Mint) was that for the first few weeks I was constantly consulting the Arch Linux Wiki to get anything done. -- I mean, yes, the emphasis is on "learned a lot". The Arch Linux Wiki is a fantastic resource.
Heck, even just reading the installation guide gives you a better understanding of how a Linux machine operates.
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's 'my distro is better' as much as it is people who loved ubuntu pissed off in the direction they went with Snaps. At least, that's my personal position. IMO, snaps have no reason to exist other than NIH. But, if they wanted to do it anyways, fine. But it should have always been opt in, and people could for example try out the Steam snap. Instead they made everything a snap mess that rarely works qui…
I liked the idea of snaps as something like the AUR. Basically a straightforward way to get un-trusted/closed source software installed without giving some random installer root on my system. Apps like Steam, Spotify, Discord, maybe even Chrome make a lot of sense since they don't really fit into a traditional open source distribution model, but I wish they'd stick with apt for anything open source.
Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#49Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm on Ubuntu Server 22.04, and I've never had to use Snap. Is it exclusively a Desktop thing?
No some server packages are snaps -- e.g. lxd
I see juju is recommended to be installed via snap, and landscape is recommended to install via juju:
https://juju.is/docs/olm/installing-juju
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/landscape-beta-juju-installat...
https://ubuntu.com/blog/landscape-beta-test-the-landscape-se...