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AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

chatterhead.bearblog.dev

151–160 of 379 posts

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#151
post #128
post #21

I think this article fundamentally misunderstands the core function of middle management. You can boil it down to 2 key tasks (on the front lines of a very large organization). a) Interpreting: either top->down by explaining and enforcing corporate policy on hourly workers or bottom->up by ensuring workers enter data to be reported on correctly b) "Encouraging": an employee calls in sick, again. Neither firing them o…

In what dystopian country do you live where you don't automatically get the day off when calling in sick?

While I agree that encouraging a sick employee to work is all kinds of messed up, most countries impose a limit on sick days.

At that point, you need to talk to the employee and figure out a solution.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is neither artificial nor intelligence.

Are middle managers either?

People love to shit on middle managers, but I can say all the ones I worked under (as a SWE, at the one company) were all smarter and more experienced than I was, and I really appreciated the mentorship.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#153

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson. The crowd still bought it. But as someone who worked on software that handled the last example you gave, I assure, a few well placed if and elses do the trick. Also, humans have tendency to follow any instructions sent to them when it is titled "System" or "Administration". *System Message:* New revised schedule for.…

>Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson.

Can you elaborate?

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#154
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How, specifically, will AI be better at that than humans? AI cannot even reliably autocorrect this comment as I’m typing it. How is it going to convince Jack to switch his shift and come in to cover open on Sunday because Jill’s sister was in a car accident and Jill is watching her niece? How’s AI going to do that better than a fellow human? This is a solved problem by using surge pricing. It's a widespread practic…

> This is a solved problem by using surge pricing. It's a widespread practice with contractors today. This solves the problem for situations where you have a large pool of workers with elastic hours for a job which requires effectively zero training... which is basically Uber, food delivery, and not much else. Even something as entry-level as a Starbucks barista you can't just pull a random person off the street and…

> Even something as entry-level as a Starbucks barista

In the UK many similar positions use contractors working "zero hour contracts" with no guaranteed hours. In other words "a large pool of workers with elastic hours for a job which requires effectively" net zero training.

> Nurses?

The demographic trends and labor shortages in much of the world I think will be a forcing function to automate and rationalize healthcare to a greater extent than it is now. The only reason I don't think that'll impact quality of care that much is because that quality is degraded today.

> Operators of specialized heavy machinery at a meat packing plant?

Not a factor given labor shortages and automation trends. And even if meat packing plants can't automate, they won't function without underpriced labor or sizable price hikes. Labor shortages are already baked into the demographic cake worldwide starting a few decades from now.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#155

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

when pay is high they will show up

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#156

What does chess have in common with retail middle management? As someone who has managed a retail store and played chess, I can confidently answer: nothing. Remember when Watson beat Ken Jennings at Jeopardy? And then IBM saturated the airwaves with ads about how Watson was going to revolutionize industries like energy and health care? Notice how we don’t see those ads anymore? It’s because winning Jeopardy has nothi…

Maybe the AI don't ask at all. Just say "you have to". On the other side, if I watch in my company, how much time the teamleaders invest in shift tables (5 or 7x24 company), I can really think AI (or any tool) could help a lot. Also on the office side in the company, everything is SAP, but why still millions of people push sooo many buttons on the PC, what a waist of time. Not all, but most work on a office is bs wor…

Judging by the simplicity of tasks our ERP can't automate, the office jobs that it replaced much have been some mind-numbing shit.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#157
This seems completely far-fetched and it gives the impression that the author has no idea what middle management entails.

Middle managers are a business' communication infrastructure and the idea that those mostly soft skills can be done by a computer is laughable.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#158
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reminds me of that joke Zizek likes to make about dating. two lovers meet up at ones house for Netflix and chill, she takes out her vibrator and he takes his fleshlight. they put them together to let them do what sexual machines do, so now their obligation is fulfilled and they can enjoy conversation instead.

That's a sad commentary on relationships.

Maybe you should watch the video to appreciate the full meaning of Zizek's idea.

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson. The crowd still bought it. But as someone who worked on software that handled the last example you gave, I assure, a few well placed if and elses do the trick. Also, humans have tendency to follow any instructions sent to them when it is titled "System" or "Administration". *System Message:* New revised schedule for.…

>Watson was a stunt. It's not very hard for someone on HN to figure out how much of Watson was Watson. Can you elaborate?

Waston isn't so much an early general chess ai than a program aided by programmers/other gms to beat a very specific style of chess that the previous world champion played in a limited number of games

Re: AI will replace middle management before robots replace hourly workers

#160
It's not a great article, but the main line of objection in comments here seems to be "This won't happen, because AI won't do the job well and certainly not better than humans." Sadly, we already know that that's not a reason for things not happening.

For example, robot staffed called centres are worse in almost every way than human staffed ones. And yet they are widely deployed in certain use cases, e.g. utility companies. And, more broadly, even when humans are involved in some chain of interaction between person and organisation, they sometimes have limited options because the computerised system imposed on them is not to designed to empower them to make on-the-hoof discretionary decisions.

Organisations chose to use automated systems of various kinds, because they think it saves money and because the reduction in service is not so appalling that that they lose customers. Or, of course, because they are an essential service, and people need to use them anyway.

We might think that competition would mean that organisations who didn't do this would do better, but often that's not how it actually works. Having an appalling system for escalating complaints is terrible for the relatively small number of people who need to make complaints. But organisations are often not optimising for good handling of edge cases even if, in some better world, we would like them to be.

(Or, indeed, never mind what we would like, organisations might not optimise for edges cases even if it might be rational for them to in the sense that it might actually save them money - edges cases can be expensive - or win them reputation - handling edges cases well is good "marketing" etc.)

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