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Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

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Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#331

Post by Isolus »

rasz wrote: post #271
Isolus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reality: the Greens and their allies spent half a trillion USD on the "energy transition" and turned off perfectly good nuclear reactors. Result: energy shortages and diplomatic submission to Russia. Um no. Renewable energy is now actually cheaper than nuclear energy. You could build renewable energy + storage within the same range of cost. The problem is the former government shut down nuclear power plants and the…

>You could Clearly Germany couldnt, otherwise they would decommission coal plants.

As I said, the former government startet the nuclear phase-out but they also didn't approve any new renewable energy sources for years.

Regardless of the type of power plant, it is totally stupid to shut down some and not allow any new ones to be built.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#332

Post by llampx »

_dain_ wrote: post #35
squid322 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision to turn off nuclear plants in Germany was __not__ made by the greens. It was made years ago by the CDU after Fukushima.

Minority parties can make the governing parties do things. UKIP wasn't in government but they made the Conservative party promise a referendum, which the eurosceptic side won -- and that was in a FPTP system! The Greens weren't in government but they had a lot of influence in the Bundestag and in the various Länder. The anti-nuclear cause has been around for decades, they creep in everywhere like a fungus.

Merkel adopted the anti-nuclear stance to take votes from the Greens, and her administration accelerated the shutdown of Germany's nuclear power plants after Fukushima. Don't blame the Greens, although I do think they are a dogmatic single-issue party and don't see the forest for the trees.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#333

Post by Isolus »

hbgl wrote: post #292
Isolus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reality: the Greens and their allies spent half a trillion USD on the "energy transition" and turned off perfectly good nuclear reactors. Result: energy shortages and diplomatic submission to Russia. Um no. Renewable energy is now actually cheaper than nuclear energy. You could build renewable energy + storage within the same range of cost. The problem is the former government shut down nuclear power plants and the…

I would really like to celebrate the affordability of renewable energy but Germany has one of the highest electricity prices in the world.

The price before taxes and fees is absolutely not high in Germany. Only if you look at the final price, the statement is true.

But if production cost isn't the problem what difference would nuclear power make?

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#334

Post by MrPatan »

kleiba wrote: post #23
_dain_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germany heats with gas [...] Germany isn't heating with electricity And whose fault is that? Why can't their much-vaunted Energiewende manage to keep people warm? After half a trillion dollars of public investment in green energy?

There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil. The reason for that is that until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. And let's not forget that the current "shortage" is a result of political decisions, and not because gas and oil have ceased to exist. Germany is in the process o…

> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine

The russian invasion of Ukraine happened because Germany is dependant on Russian gas.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#335

Post by anm89 »

Narretz wrote: post #171
anm89 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is still facing a very cold winter by all accounts. This will help around the margins

We don't even know how the temperatures are going to be. It currently points to an average / mild winter, so I don't know where you are getting "a very cold" winter from if the weather base isn't even there yet.

Cold in the sense that they will lack the resources to warm themselves through an average winter. I of course cannot predict the weather

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#336

Post by llampx »

legulere wrote: post #79
systemvoltage wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we make sure we don’t do this again? What are current things that are unpopular today but will be regrettable in 10-20 years? We need to eradicate the root cause, because we will make costly mistakes like this over and over. That means taking an extremely rational approach towards problems regardless of their popularity and allow opposition to emotion-driven zeitgeists that thrive through oppression and curbin…

> What are current things that are unpopular today but will be regrettable in 10-20 years? Wind turbines and power lines in my backyard. It's already regrettable today.

Hi Markus Söder

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#337

Post by llampx »

jansan wrote: post #58
legulere wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't switch 40 million heating systems overnight, though it's picking up steam ( https://www.waermepumpe.de/presse/zahlen-daten/ ).

Simply install an air conditioner and you will have very efficient room heating (no hot water, though). They cost about 1500€ and are really easy to install. I know in Bulgaria many households have switched from oil heating to air conditioners.

In some places it is actually illegal to install an AC at home. For example in Switzerland. Unsure about Germany.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#338

Post by llampx »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #89
xg15 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany's main source of heating is gas and yes, gas is used to generate electricity, so nuclear can reduce gas consumption. However, only about 10% of gas is used for electricity and Germany has enough electricity. In a worst-case scenario, those nuclear power plants can help stabilize the grid, but they are not needed in general. A number of cities also use district heating, where the heat is taken directly from…

I wouldn't like nuclear water heating my house.

This is the level of education the average German has.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#339

Post by hef19898 »

MrPatan wrote: post #334
kleiba wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil. The reason for that is that until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. And let's not forget that the current "shortage" is a result of political decisions, and not because gas and oil have ceased to exist. Germany is in the process o…

> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine The russian invasion of Ukraine happened because Germany is dependant on Russian gas.

Care to elaborate? Or wouldn't have Russia invaded if Germany (and a large part of Europe, by the way) did rely on Russian gas? That kind of doesn't make any sense, since it was Russia who cut gas supply, and not vice versa. So Russia doesn't seem to have any interest in selling gas to Europe.

Re: Germany extends lifetime of all 3 remaining nuclear plants

#340

Post by sllabres »

V__ wrote: post #181
sllabres wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's not Germany alone. A lot of the electricity produced in Germany is exported to other countries. And if this is not longer possible this would be a problem for them too. More aggravating is the circumstance that France, another European country that usually exports electricity cannot too as many (half) of their fleet of nuclear reactors are in maintenance.

They are planning to get them up and running till winter, but I don't know enough to have an opinion on whether this is achievable and if not how much of a problem that would be and if those three nuclear plants would make a difference.

Doesn't look too good from my laymans point of view [1]:

"Title: Maintenance on eight French nuclear reactors delayed by strike ... French nuclear availability is currently at 51% of total capacity with 26 reactors offline for maintenance."

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-says-strike-hits...

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