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Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

neil.computer

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Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#151

Post by alias_neo »

dotancohen wrote: post #126
alias_neo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah I'm fine with it, because I never go to the website and just use mail clients; I can tolerate you its existence, out of sight out of mind and all that. Actually I did use the web client one time recently and I literally couldn't find an email I knew I'd just received; my inbox is kept at 0 unread; so in theory it should have been impossible NOT to see it, right? After the initial confusion then annoyance came the…

> Nah I'm fine with it, because I never go to the website and just use mail > clients; I can tolerate you its existence, out of sight out of mind and all that. And that contributes nothing to this thread because we are discussing the Jetbrains UI and the Gmail UI was an analogy. Unless you would like to argue that we can ignore Jetbrains UI changes like Gmail UI changes because we can use VIM as an interface to the c…

I'm afraid my British humour (sarcasm) may have been lost here.

I'm neither fine with Gmail, nor with major changes to Jetbrains IDE which I've been using every day for years now, and totally agree with all of the points in the article (and by extension this thread).

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#152

Post by yellow_lead »

faizshah wrote: post #140
Gigachad wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI refreshes are a funny thing. I remember avidly hating the look of YouTube when they removed all the borders from things. And now when I see the old version, it looks quite bad and the current one very good. It’s an uncomfortable feeling to see something new, and sometimes it genuinely is a step backwards, but I feel most of the time it’s progress and you get over it after a month.

Same, the only refresh that I feel is genuinely bad is reddit. The problem with new reddit is that the usage pattern is totally different. Old reddit can be rapidly browsed and only the posts that interest you are the ones that you give attention, in new reddit posts can’t be rapidly browsed and each one is supposed to grab your attention (in my opinion).

The fact that reddit still has old.reddit.com available is a testament to the failure of the new design.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#153

Post by pjmlp »

keyle wrote: post #18

After years of using IntelliJ I finally moved to VSCode. IntelliJ simply could do C/C++ but they chose to push people towards a new IDE... C Lion. That was a huge blow for me, a polyglot. Then I had a couple of bug opened with them... it took years for them to fix it. Except they marked it as fixed and it was indeed not fixed... Years later! I kept paying until that point, I just couldn't do it anymore. The company i…

They don't support JNI development on purpose as means to sell Clion licenses, they are the only Java IDE not doing it.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#154

Post by eloisant »

faizshah wrote: post #140
Gigachad wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI refreshes are a funny thing. I remember avidly hating the look of YouTube when they removed all the borders from things. And now when I see the old version, it looks quite bad and the current one very good. It’s an uncomfortable feeling to see something new, and sometimes it genuinely is a step backwards, but I feel most of the time it’s progress and you get over it after a month.

Same, the only refresh that I feel is genuinely bad is reddit. The problem with new reddit is that the usage pattern is totally different. Old reddit can be rapidly browsed and only the posts that interest you are the ones that you give attention, in new reddit posts can’t be rapidly browsed and each one is supposed to grab your attention (in my opinion).

It's not just Reddit, Gmail also got worse with time.

Even now when I look at Gmail 2004 I find it superior to the current UI.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#156

Post by boomlinde »

irrational wrote: post #98
hsn915 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t mind a UI refresh, it’s going to be just like the gmail refresh everyone hated it and now we’re all fine with it. We are not fine with it. It really sucks. It's just out of our hands. To this day I hate the gmail interface. It used to be so much better back in the day.

I’ve used gmail pretty much since day 1, but I can’t recall any of the previous interfaces. What were the good features of previous ones?

At the bottom of this guide there are two links to switch from the current state-of-the-art design to the "basic HTML" version, and back, should you regret it: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15049?hl=en

The "basic HTML" version is probably not exactly as any previous version but it's a good approximation. I think it makes much better use of color and space, and the buttons have text labels instead of using an arcane symbol language I have to relearn every time I have the misfortune to use it.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#157

Post by pjmlp »

jbhouse wrote: post #143

Hot take time. Actual professionals use keyboard shortcuts to easily navigate or bring to the forefront whatever they need in Intellij (the JB product I use) If you are clicking through menus all day or are otherwise negatively affected to such a degree by a visual change like this, you are an amateur So really, JetBrains is bringing consumer-grade UI practices to the world of... amateurs This world for amateurs exis…

Ah, developers on Microsoft and Apple ecosystes are amateurs, got it!

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#158

Post by neilpanchal »

wiseowise wrote: post #105

I’m sorry, It’s impossible to take someone seriously who considers them professional and yet relies on clicking (!) icons for their workflow in IDE. The only right way to work on IntelliJ products is to leave only code editor, hide everything else and work through keyboard.

I use dozens of keyboard shortcuts in PyCharm. Most editing takes place without reaching for the mouse (vim plugin). GUI is still an integral part of Jetbrains IDEs regardless of how good you're with shortcuts. There are 10,000 things in there, with at most you can memorize and assign 100 shortcuts.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#159

Post by TheCapeGreek »

jbhouse wrote: post #143

Hot take time. Actual professionals use keyboard shortcuts to easily navigate or bring to the forefront whatever they need in Intellij (the JB product I use) If you are clicking through menus all day or are otherwise negatively affected to such a degree by a visual change like this, you are an amateur So really, JetBrains is bringing consumer-grade UI practices to the world of... amateurs This world for amateurs exis…

You don't even need to learn all the shortcuts - I cleared my PHPStorm UI long ago. If I need something in a menu, I open the Actions search menu and start typing. If I need to look into code, double tap shift for the All search menu and go ham.

Sprinkle in one or two for e.g. git branches and you get most of the speed you need.

I don't need to look at a splatter of information on my screen - I need code and a select few other pieces.

Re: Dear JetBrains, Don't mess with your UI

#160

Post by Marazan »

manmal wrote: post #146
bugbuddy wrote: post #103

Yet another another great product that is falling prey to the newism ideology where change is almost worshipped for its own sake. You see this problem everywhere nowadays from Cinemas to architecture. People have lost the ability to appreciate timeless designs. Another good example of this is the new Apple iPhone 14 pro hole. To many it is better because it is newer. Never mind that the fact that there is actually no…

It’s not change for change‘s sake though. People are migrating towards mobile displays and actually doing work on those - as small as 11“. IntelliJ doesn’t work well on those displays. I‘m not saying we shouldn’t have both options (eg minimal mode and pro mode or whatever).

I used Eclipse on an asus eee901. It was fine.
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