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American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

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Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#51

Post by SoftTalker »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #22

What seems unsaid in the article but seems to be the case, is that the app is logging in to American Airlines systems using the flight attendant credentials and then scraping. If this is the case, I think American Airlines is justified in trying to block them. An app storing/using credentials for a different service is a data breach waiting to happen.

Any evidence that the app is storing/using credentials, or if it is, storing them insecurely? How about AA's own apps? Do they store credentials or do you have to log in every time?

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#52

Post by ryandrake »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #31
shagie wrote: post #7

The app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sequence-decoder/id1439988599 For the public: -Past and future departure information for all airports -Past and future arrival information for all airports -Individual flight info lookup For flight attendants: -Flight specific info inflight -ETB alerts -Open time alerts -Flight alerts -Open time display -Sequence details -Calendar -Reserve call out list -Standby list -Crew chat…

It would be surprising if AA doesn't offer this set of information already to their employees via internal systems. It's difficult to see why AA would allegedly want to block it since it seems like a net benefit for their employee's productivity. Maybe AA IT hasn't yet combined all this into one big user-friendly app, and therefore they want to punish the perceived disloyalty of the flight attendants.

It seems pretty clear that they want to block it because they want to control how the productivity information is accessed, and that control is more important to them than their employees being satisfied and productive. The article mentioned that the author of the app even previously reached out to partner with them (maybe asked for an API so he didn't have to scrape?) and they were still uninterested.

Imagine your company's official expense reporting system is a 35 year old Windows 3.1 application that constantly crashes and doesn't even integrate with payroll so underpaid assistants have to manually copy records over from DOS to ADP's system. One of those assistants comes up with a web-based app that scrapes the database and makes it easy for everyone. Most large companies I've seen are going to come down on that assistant like a ton of bricks, not reward them for their ingenuity. It's just the nature of power structure in large bureaucratic companies.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#53

Post by selimthegrim »

carlmr wrote: post #37
ClassyJacket wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't write the article, but I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either. It's a calendar of times employees have to work i.e. It tells you when your shifts are. What do you call that? Also a reserve is something you have spare in case the original planned one can't operate. So a reserve flight attendant would be someone who is on call in case someone else is sick, etcetera.

>I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either. I know what it is, but maybe the people that don't use schedule or timetable?

Don't they say 'rota' in the UK?

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#54

Post by acedTrex »

ketzo wrote: post #30
shagie wrote: post #7

The app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sequence-decoder/id1439988599 For the public: -Past and future departure information for all airports -Past and future arrival information for all airports -Individual flight info lookup For flight attendants: -Flight specific info inflight -ETB alerts -Open time alerts -Flight alerts -Open time display -Sequence details -Calendar -Reserve call out list -Standby list -Crew chat…

Two thoughts: 1. Wow, that looks like an extremely useful app if you're a flight attendant! 2. How is their employer not providing this functionality? I guess maybe they are, but only parts, or it's a shittier version. But still.

They are, it's just spread across multiple websites and datasources as is typical in large corporations. This app scrapes all the sites with the FAs AA credentials and aggregates the data.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#55

Post by SoftTalker »

Clent wrote: post #34
dboreham wrote: post #5

Rule #1: don't start a business that depends on data owned by some other business. Rule #1-1: especially if your product adversely affects the other business. Rule #1-2: especially if the other business is much larger than yours.

This is the most anti startup logic I've witnessed on here. Many startups have succeeded while violating all of these rules.

Many have succeeded by breaking a variety of actual laws, e.g. Uber, Lyft.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#56

Post by mylons »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #26

How long until Apple removes this app for the same reasons as The OG App? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769 5.2.2 Third-Party Sites/Services: If your app uses, accesses, monetizes access to, or displays content from a third-party service, ensure that you are specifically permitted to do so under the service’s terms of use. Authorization must be provided upon request.

sadly waiting on the EU to dismantle app store monopolies via regulation.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#57

Post by blamazon »

nnm wrote: post #36

One side story. There is no comments / voice on the AA side. Read like a biased article. "become a must-have" reads like exaggeration

There are no comments/voice on the AA side because they are likely 'accidentally' dodging labor laws (by laying obligation of checking legality on the attendants) through obfuscation of this data. That seems a large part of why it's become a 'must-have.' That kind of behavior merits this relatively 'soft' one-sided take in my opinion.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#58

Post by anovikov »

mannerheim wrote: post #44
badcppdev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a legality checker?

My guess is it checks whether their shifts are compliant with labour laws.

These aren't labour laws strictly speaking, more like airline safety laws. I.e. they aren't about well-being of employees but safety of planes operated by overworked crews.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#59

Post by TobyTheDog123 »

nnm wrote: post #28
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #22

What seems unsaid in the article but seems to be the case, is that the app is logging in to American Airlines systems using the flight attendant credentials and then scraping. If this is the case, I think American Airlines is justified in trying to block them. An app storing/using credentials for a different service is a data breach waiting to happen.

It is commonsense to use the hardware/software authorized by your employer to do the work.

This is nonsense.

This would be like claiming you have to use a company-sponsored to-do list app, or a company-sponsored git client, or a company-sponsored text editor, or a company-sponsored FTP client.

I'd hate to be at any job that enforces any single one of those. There are many arguments against this app, but this is not one of them.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#60

Post by mannerheim »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #29
saurik wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, is that relevant? This app is free and doesn't even have in-app purchases, so it sounds like it was just built by a person (one sufficiently human to its users that the reviews are directly written to or about "Jeff") who had some reason to care for this community and isn't a "business".

While true, is that relevant? I can easily see Apple siding with a business as large as AA over a single person trying to make a useful app for people.

If you choose a walled garden, you'll have to live at the mercy of gatekeepers.
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