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American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

paddleyourownkanoo.com

21–30 of 258 posts

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#21
I'm sad that this is happening to an app that's useful to its users, but the reality is that scraping is legal, always possible, but difficult.

This particular case is a bit harder since it's not purely using public data, but may still qualify since it's likely scraping with legally-obtained credentials.

I know of businesses (scraping for ride-sharing, scraping for business intelligence for retailers, scraping from LinkedIn - see HiQ Labs v. LinkedIn) that have continuously succeeded via scraping in ways that large businesses oppose.

The key is: you must make enough profit to justify dedicating engineering and legal techniques to defend your scraping.

- Scraping public data is legal, as affirmed by the Supreme Court in Van Buren v. United States [1] and HiQ Labs v. LinkedIn [2]. Defending yourself or suing the data owner in court are both expensive though

- Defeating anti-scraping via technical means is pretty much always possible, but can be costly depending on the scraped site's technical expertise and value in keeping their data private. The benefit to you must exceed the cost to you, and ideally should also exceed the cost to the data owner

- Mobilizing PR and internal resistance may also be effective, but it's usually hard to have outcry from a large enough group to change an organization's policies. In this case, the union can push for it, but AA may try to withhold improvements until the next set of union negotiations

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Buren_v._United_States

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiQ_Labs_v._LinkedIn

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#22
What seems unsaid in the article but seems to be the case, is that the app is logging in to American Airlines systems using the flight attendant credentials and then scraping.

If this is the case, I think American Airlines is justified in trying to block them. An app storing/using credentials for a different service is a data breach waiting to happen.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#23
post #20

It is commonsense to use the hardware/software authorized by your employer to do the work. One side story. It is third party app that is not authorized by AA. Instead of get permission through a contract, the app developer scraped AA's data without AA's permission.

You don’t need specific permission to scrape data.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#25
post #20

It is commonsense to use the hardware/software authorized by your employer to do the work. One side story. It is third party app that is not authorized by AA. Instead of get permission through a contract, the app developer scraped AA's data without AA's permission.

[deleted]

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#26
How long until Apple removes this app for the same reasons as The OG App?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33015769

5.2.2 Third-Party Sites/Services: If your app uses, accesses, monetizes access to, or displays content from a third-party service, ensure that you are specifically permitted to do so under the service’s terms of use. Authorization must be provided upon request.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#27

I don't understand. What does this app do?

Same reaction, I'm totally lost. "it displays information required by crew members to manage their rosters and work lives" What does this mean? I read the entire article and still have no clue what a "roster" is, why a flight attendant would need to "manage" such a thing, and what data is being pulled to make this easier/better "‘reserve’ flight attendants " Also have no idea what a "reserve" flight attendant is... E…

I didn't write the article, but I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either. It's a calendar of times employees have to work i.e. It tells you when your shifts are.

What do you call that?

Also a reserve is something you have spare in case the original planned one can't operate. So a reserve flight attendant would be someone who is on call in case someone else is sick, etcetera.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#28

What seems unsaid in the article but seems to be the case, is that the app is logging in to American Airlines systems using the flight attendant credentials and then scraping. If this is the case, I think American Airlines is justified in trying to block them. An app storing/using credentials for a different service is a data breach waiting to happen.

It is commonsense to use the hardware/software authorized by your employer to do the work.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#29
post #11
post #5

Rule #1: don't start a business that depends on data owned by some other business. Rule #1-1: especially if your product adversely affects the other business. Rule #1-2: especially if the other business is much larger than yours.

While true, is that relevant? This app is free and doesn't even have in-app purchases, so it sounds like it was just built by a person (one sufficiently human to its users that the reviews are directly written to or about "Jeff") who had some reason to care for this community and isn't a "business".

While true, is that relevant? I can easily see Apple siding with a business as large as AA over a single person trying to make a useful app for people.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#30
post #7

The app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sequence-decoder/id1439988599 For the public: -Past and future departure information for all airports -Past and future arrival information for all airports -Individual flight info lookup For flight attendants: -Flight specific info inflight -ETB alerts -Open time alerts -Flight alerts -Open time display -Sequence details -Calendar -Reserve call out list -Standby list -Crew chat…

Two thoughts:

1. Wow, that looks like an extremely useful app if you're a flight attendant!

2. How is their employer not providing this functionality? I guess maybe they are, but only parts, or it's a shittier version. But still.

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