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Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

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Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. They ask people to switch off all transmitters during flights (and later to during takeoff and landing) because of RF emissions. I think that's a little outdated. I flew a few times a few months ago, and the passengers were repeatedly encouraged to hook up to the plane's wifi as soon as we boarded. No announcements were made about turning devices off. Not even during take-off or landing. I'm one of those pe…

> passengers were repeatedly encouraged to hook up to the plane's wifi as soon as we boarded I think this is to make sure that you have it setup early so any tech support can be handled early and to make sure you can download the airline app to your phone if needed. The aircrew can enable/disable the wifi at will. Next time look to see if it is working at takeoff. I’m honestly not sure if it will be or not, but it us…

> The aircrew can enable/disable the wifi at will.

Yes, but that does nothing when it comes to risk of radio emissions. Turning off the AP doesn't magically prevent client devices from doing whatever they want anyway. If there was a genuine risk of a client device interfering with the plane's equipment, turning off an AP wouldn't do anything about it, nor will asking the passengers to turn it off (some might not comply, forget or not even realize that their device has a Wi-Fi radio in it). You need either extreme control over every electronic device brought onboard (including X-ray scans, since implantable medical devices now have RF communication too), or enough shielding around the sensitive equipment to make RF no longer a risk - the latter has already been done for decades and RF is no longer (and I don't recall ever being actually) a threat to airplanes.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#113
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read my comment.. or did you see Apple product under attack and went for me.

I was responding to > a phone is not by default a device to track a kid an air tag is I would be surprised if lots of parents were not using the Find My functionality to track kids with phones before AirTags came out. I also recall mobile networks selling it as an additional service to parents before Apple and Google rolled out their solutions. Nowadays, even younger kids get Apple Watches for tracking purposes.

Scary.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#114
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be okay to put it in a metal box forming a faraday cage? I could seriously see a demand for such a product if they follow through on this ban.

What would be the point of putting an AirTag in your luggage if you prevent it from communicating with the outside world? Toss the Tag in your carry-on if you want it at your destination.

The box could open itself after landing.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#115
post #104
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t ask you to turn off all radios during takeoff/landing anymore. Just cellular.

And some large percentage doesn't bother and it's absolutely fine.

Obviously. But it's not the point. Point was the concern - by their thinking - is not the battery in the AirTag but the transmitter.

I give up.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#116
post #72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> irregardless Sorry to nitpick, but you can just say regardless.

If you really like nitpicks: you can also just say irregardless. https://www.npr.org/2020/07/07/887649010/regardless-of-what-...

> you can also just say irregardless.[1]

Please stop using that word.

[1] https://www.etymonline.com/word/irregardless

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#117
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) The wifi system is EMC certified and tested with the flight instrumentation. Dozens of different consumer devices are not. 2) Lufthansa "allows it during the entire flight without restriction – even during take-off and landing unless the crew instruct otherwise"( https://bluetoothtechworld.com/can-i-use-bluetooth-headphone... ). In other words, unless you're told to turn it off in the event of some problem, which…

Is that certification actually important? It seems to me like a denylist would be more useful than an Allowlist at this point. Almost no consumer electronics are dangerous to a plane

Apparently, to them, yes.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they don’t because most have onboard wifi now. And most allow Bluetooth headphones, including Lufthansa: Lufthansa: Bluetooth headphones are allowed during every part of the flight.

1) The wifi system is EMC certified and tested with the flight instrumentation. Dozens of different consumer devices are not. 2) Lufthansa "allows it during the entire flight without restriction – even during take-off and landing unless the crew instruct otherwise"( https://bluetoothtechworld.com/can-i-use-bluetooth-headphone... ). In other words, unless you're told to turn it off in the event of some problem, which…

I suspect the difference is more about the spectrum in use. Airtags can be found and interact via Ultra-Wideband (UWB), which essentially means low power broadcast across 3.1GHz up to 10GHz approx. This includes some spectrum used for GNSS.

One is probably fine but a hold full of them and people's iPhones emitting on UWB also?

By contrast Bluetooth, WiFi etc use the ISM radio bands, which can simply be avoided by any transmission the plane itself needs to do.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#119
post #7

Except they have. A Lufthansa spokesperson has clarified the new rules for the German news site watson: https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-... It rougly translate to: The device itself is not banned, but has to be shut off during flight. In practice this would mean that you would have to remove the battery from the airtag, since there is no powerswitch. But I will admit that this seems odd an…

As far as I understand there is nothing new. Lithium batteries have always been allowed in checked luggage only if they are inside a completely powered off and reasonably protected device, to avoid the risk of fires. This risk doesn't really apply to such small batteries, but the rules are there regardless of the size of the battery.

AirTags don’t use lithium ion batteries.

Re: Lufthansa has not banned AirTags

#120
post #59
post #7

Except they have. A Lufthansa spokesperson has clarified the new rules for the German news site watson: https://www.watson.de/leben/urlaub%20&%20freizeit/879935671-... It rougly translate to: The device itself is not banned, but has to be shut off during flight. In practice this would mean that you would have to remove the battery from the airtag, since there is no powerswitch. But I will admit that this seems odd an…

Or grant the owner the ability to temporarily stop an AirTag from broadcasting its signal for a specified amount of time. Do it right before your luggage is checked in up until the estimated time of arrival.

The problem is not (only?) the broadcasting. The problem is the lithium battery used in a non-switched-off device.
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